The New Generation Fan Club

[PEN15v2]

They probably get enough credit, but I really enjoyed the Bret Hart matches at King of the Ring 93, especially vs Perfect and Bam Bam. The older I get, the more I appreciate Bret's work.

Not a match that's special, but I remembering really being shocked when it was revealed Tatanka was taking DiBiase's money in 94, and not Luger as he was accusing. Probably a standard trope, but as a 12-13 year old, it was a story I was really invested in.

When talking about Rumble 95, that was match 2 of the 3 PPV series between Hart and Diesel. I think all 3 matches are solid, but the last one where Bret won the title back is easily the best.


I know you wanted happy place thoughts, but one New Gen related thought that I know is controversial is that I can't think of a more overrated wrestler of that time than Davey Boy Smith. I loved his tag work, either with Dynamite or Owen. But as a singles wrestler, I think the only match that made me care about him was breaking out of the Full Nelson by the Warlord at Mania 7. But for whatever reason, nothing he did in singles after that really registered. The SummerSlam 92 match is great, but we know way too much about the backstage background of the match for me to think of anything other than Bret was a genius. Bulldog's stuff in WCW and then back in WWF in 1994-96 was ok at best. It wasn't until joining Owen at the end of 96 that I felt he did anything of value.

[Prime Time]

If I were going to try and defend Davey Boy, I suppose I'd say he's far from the only babyface languishing in the WWF or WCW in 1992-1994.... but yeah, that period was quite barren for him, the Bret match at Summerslam aside. But once he turns heel in 1995, I think there's a lot more to like there. He has more hits than misses after that, in my opinion, until he pitches up in WCW, after which I'm not sure there's anything worth writing home about. But during that run I'm talking about you've got the IYH match with Bret, the KOTR match with Shawn, and the RAW match with Owen, and honestly I'd take that CV over pretty much anything you could throw at it in the last fifteen years.

But in terms of work I think the general idea is he was a talented guy, one who could do great things with the right opponent, could drag most people to 'good', but wasn't going to work a miracle like Bret or Owen if they really fancied it. Then that he was a decent middle of the card babyface, probably perfectly positioned in the tag division with Dynamite tbh, but who could main event (at the very least on a short term basis) as a villain, particularly if he has someone to help out on interviews.


Oh, and when I last rewatched this stuff Tatanka and DiBiase held up really, really well.

[Samuel 'Plan]

Tatanka and Luger's feud was magnificent. A lost chance to culminate it at Mania XI really. Could love on their rivalry all day long.

Bulldog's IYH match with Shawn can go on that list too far as I'm concerned Prime. A great demonstration of main event presentation that. Bulldog was the perfect foil for New Gen's heroes. As fast as Shawn, as powerful as Diesel, and as technically lethal as Bret. What a nemesis to have to hand.

Roster positioning / design - another brilliant New Gen characteristic that pays dividends for the product so many, many times over.

As for lost gems, there's a very, very deep well just from the period's Raw. Watch that run from '93 to the post-Rumble show '97 and you'll be spoiled. From Savage and Yoko to Bret and Owen to Austin and Bart Gunn of all people. I have a long, long list I could recommend from my (abandoned) book research! That's before you even get to PPV.

[Prime Time]

It's been so long since I've seen that match that I'm not sure I remember it, other than the fact that the finish was very well executed. Whether or not it was the right time and place to do the controversial double-pin ending has always been a matter of some debate, but I've rarely seen it so well carried off by the performers. I remember, though, that the common opinion holds it's a decent enough match but more of a warm-up for what you get at King of the Ring. But of course, that's all part of the same story - and the King of the Ring match doesn't mean quite the same thing without the double pin.

If I had to put money on it, I'd say it's likely I have the KOTR match on DVD, but not the IYH8 match, so I don't know if I'll ever get to see it again.

The good thing about Bulldog in that role was that he was 'not quite' all those things. What I mean is, it was pretty clear that in a test of pure strength, he'd lose to Diesel or Ahmed Johnson or whoever. That meant they still had a clear path to beat him. But he was likely faster and more technically gifted, and so there was such an obvious and clear threat there, too. It wasn't this very modern conceit of the wrestler without a weakness. Add in the character weaknesses that lead him to aligning with Cornette et al, and you've got a very dangerous opponent, but a heel that can be overcome. A trickier combination to achieve than one might think.

Not at all surprised to see Bart Gunn on that list. I remember him having some very good singles matches. Think there was a RAW once where Billy took on.... I wanna say Goldust, who had the IC belt, and Bart took on Shawn who had the world title. I don't think the belts were on the line (could be wrong on that) but remember Bart and Shawn being very good. And it's not like you were just guaranteed a good match with Shawn in that run, either. He put out his fair share of stinkers, both matches and promos, and because he was in the middle of self-destruction he had to fancy it, basically. But yeah, Bart more than held his end up.

Feel free to drop the odd match off in here, every so often. I might be able to find videos online for individual matches.

[Funker]

It would have been interesting to see Davey get the title in 1996 since Shawn was such a mess although that probably means you lose the Mind Games match with Mankind.

[PEN15v2]

In my chronological viewing, I just got to Survivor Series 95 and the following week "heel turn" for Diesel. While Eric B likes to point out how Nitro and NWO added a level of realism (he might have phrased it differently, but I hope you know what I mean), Diesel really had a great "NWO/Attitude Era" style promo on the Raw after SSEries95, breaking the 4th wall and also being very authentic.

https://www.wwe.com/videos/diesel-addresses-the-wwe-raw-november-20-1995

Not really trying to make a point, but I found it interesting.

[Prime Time]

They do a lot of that through the New Gen. There's examples of moves in that direction in 1993 and 1994 in particular as well, and it's well in evidence by late 1995. I think it just gets forgotten about because it doesn't fit into the dominant narrative, and because the overhaul was less obvious/far reaching than what you see after 1997.

[mizfan]

Definitely seeds planted in that era that grew later. I still remember Bret's wild table bump in that Survivor Series match with Diesel (pretty sure that's the one anyway).

[Prime Time]

Yeah, that was pretty legendary, as was the blood the following month against Bulldog. In Bret's case there's more 'edge' in the presentation from the end of the second title reign, so by late 1995 it was well established. The Rumble title match earlier that year was also fairly chaotic iirc.

But the idea of being more 'real' and 'edgy' was the original goal behind launching Monday Night Raw in 1993 as well, so it's definitely something they start trying to do once the conscious decision to move on from Warrior, Savage et al was made in 1992.

[mizfan]

What, you mean Rob Bartlett didn't get the job done in '93??

[PEN15v2]

Was that around the same time NFL added Dennis Miller to the booth? Adding comedians, or anyone, who don't know the sport to commentary just didn't make sense. You'd think WWE would have learned from that, yet a year later had Art Donovan at King of the Ring.

Another late 95 thought/note: Goldust was fricken amazing. I don't just mean Dustin. But the gimmick is so well developed. Commentary at one point flat out said something along the lines of "I think he uses homophobia to play mind games on his opponents." We all know that's exactly what it it was, but to have the production acknowledge that was a touch of genius. And that theme music is soooo good.

[Prime Time]

Goldust was very well educated right up until he lost the IC title. It was much more hit and miss after that, but the first.... what, 10 months?.... was great.

Was thinking how interesting it was for Mankind to have the different entrance and exit music during this period, too. That was a really simple thing but it made for a very nice little presentational thing. And actually, I know there's all the various different iterations in his career, but for me the spell in 1996 is probably the best spell of Mick Foley's career - from, say, the night after WrestleMania through to the match with Shawn Michaels at Mind Games. I think he's at a whole other level during that run.

Oh, and just to go back to Goldust for a second - the Bronco that he ran over Roddy Piper in? The day of WrestleMania XII Piper asked to buy it, so Vince gave it to him as a gift and he drove it back home from Anaheim to Oregon. Not a major thing or anything but I dunno, to me it's an interesting little nugget.

[PEN15v2]

I landed on Mania 12 yesterday in my chronological watching. Looking forward to Mankind to bring out the best of the Undertaker for the start of that era

[Prime Time]

There's definitely two stages to Undertaker in the New Gen. In the first, he's basically the Hogan-era Undertaker, just elevated to a position of greater importance. For the most part, you are there to watch him beat people quickly. It's almost Goldberg-esque. And really it's just a spectacle. Then when he comes back with that face mask on, you get this slow transition to someone having something much closer to a normal match. He starts out almost exactly as dominant as before he went away, but by the time he wrestles Bret at the Rumble you can tell things are changing, and then when Foley comes in the transition is complete and you get this summer where he's having the matches of his life to that point, and simultaneously appearing more vulnerable than he ever had before.

It's actually a great run, from there through the title reign into the first six months or so of the Kane angle. Obviously by then you're into Attitude and it's not long before the whole thing loses the plot, but it was an excellent couple of years.

[PEN15v2]

The first 5 years of his career really hold back his reputation as a worker for my own perspective. This isn't to say I think he sucks, but there was once a time where I argued that Kane was the superior worker to his kayfabe brother. I can't apologize enough for how wrong I was at that time. But I think the reason the once believed that is how little skill we witnessed until 1996. There are all sorts of reasons that he wasn't ever expected to deliver in the ring, and it's entirely possible it took him 5 years to learn how to work at that level. But that time frame still feels like a weak point that stands out more than it should, despite the rest of his career being nothing but tremendous for a man his size.


Back to the NewGen topic, the Vince love for Shawn is pretty hard to watch with a straight face. I catch myself laughing or cringing too often.

And the whole roster feels lacking, from late 95 to March 96. We know how many stars will be developed or be pushed in the next months. But other than Undertaker vs Diesel and Goldust vs Piper, no one feels like there's any energy to their character or story. Obviously Shawn vs Bret is the main event, but the story is non existent, so their characters feel uninteresting. Vader vs Yokozuna isn't great, because the sudden perfect English for Yoko creates a major disconnect, and Vader doesn't get to show his dominance much as he's suspended right away. The tag division is terrible. HHH vs Dumpster or Godwinn is far from a display of his potential. Austin might be Stone Cold, but the character needs work at this point, and Savio is far from the top of the card. I'm loving the return of the Warrior, though it's bittersweet knowing how it'll be booked and how short it'll last.

I dunno. I can see why WCW is about to break out, because WWF isn't firing on all cylinders. The Shawn baby face character is really hard to watch