The Surprisingly Not Awful Baron Corbin Thread

[Powder]

With Mania only 2 weeks away, I can see Cena coming back tonight and challenging Corbin for his shot at Angle. All reports are that the fans hate the idea of Corbin, and backstage rumors are confirming that Corbin/Angle is not a loved idea.

[Team Farrell]

Part of me wonders if this thread alone is the proof of how difficult it is to run a wrestling company anymore. No one is talking about whether they like him or not, everyone is talking about whether he is entertaining or awful.

Whereas in the past you used to hate the guy you didn't like and want them to get beat up, now you just want them to go away. And of course, it's safe to say that the people who do like him probably have a completely different conception of what they want the show to look like.

Just interesting to think that a thread for Baron Corbin of all people could be a microcosm for the wider world of pro wrestling in 2019.

I missed this two months ago, but this is a million per cent spot on.

There's this belief in pro wrestling fan circles that everyone, heels and faces, should be going out there to put a big smile on your face and get a hearty belly laugh. As though pro wrestling is a comedy show.

When The Midnight Express had to be escorted out of buildings by police, it wasn't because fans were so very entertained by them and got a great chuckle out of their heel antics. It was because these guys were pricks and they wanted them dead. People today would want the Midights to "go away".

Maybe it means that people want me to "go away" or aren't "entertained" by me, but I took pride in the fact that I riled a guy up so bad he took a swing at me Friday. In my mind, that's heat, not getting people to boo because they know you're the bad guy and they're in on the joke and just having fun.

[Powder]

I disagree. Look to Bubba Ray in ECW. He was loathed in ECW so much that he nearly caused riots in Philly, yet no one wanted him to go away, they waned someone to come out and shut him up.

There are those heels in the business that people love to hate, jut look at Daniel Bryan right now. His promos are condescending, insulting, and make you want to hate him, and everyone knows that while his gimmick is seated in reality, he is playing a part. Also look at Heyman, he gets you to absolutely hate Lesnar, and all you want from those two is for anyone to come and shut them up. Thus they are doing their job as heels. They make you want to hate them but you'd rather see someone punch them in their faces.

Corbin is not one of those types of heels. He cannot play the part. He does not make you want to hate him, he makes you want him off your TV screen. Elias plays the part well. Elias does everything you should do to make one hate him. He insults you, your town, your sports team etc. Corbin comes off as the entitled kid that was given the keys to his father's Porche, then crashes it, and gets another brand new Porsche as a result. A kid that you want to say "just go away" and not have to deal with, rather than see him get beat up.

Yes we are in an age where most of the fans know all about the backstage, the kayfabe, and the real life behind the performers, but the good ones can still make you believe and love or hate them.

For me, Charlotte is the epitome of the get off my screen and go away.

Heels can still make you hate them, but it cannot be the same way that it was done 30 years ago. Remember that a good heel not only makes you hate them, but also makes his opposing babyface look good at the same time. You cannot be a good heel if you do not give credit to your opposition. Corbin just comes out and screws over the faces, but never gives them any credit.

[Team Farrell]

I disagree. Look to Bubba Ray in ECW. He was loathed in ECW so much that he nearly caused riots in Philly, yet no one wanted him to go away, they waned someone to come out and shut him up.

That was also 20+ years ago. Fans back then showed up because they didn't mind hating guys and wanted to tell them to fuck off. This has been something that's happened in the last decade or less.

There are those heels in the business that people love to hate, jut look at Daniel Bryan right now.

It's that "love to hate" statement that I think is the very core of the problem, though. There was a time where you just hated guys.

Corbin is not one of those types of heels. He cannot play the part. He does not make you want to hate him, he makes you want him off your TV screen. Elias plays the part well. Elias does everything you should do to make one hate him. He insults you, your town, your sports team etc. Corbin comes off as the entitled kid that was given the keys to his father's Porche, then crashes it, and gets another brand new Porsche as a result. A kid that you want to say "just go away" and not have to deal with, rather than see him get beat up.

But that's exactly the type of guy you'd want to see get beaten up. The problem is, people have decided that he's boring or can't work or take your pick so they want him to "go away". Everyone wants heels to be "cool" heels that they don't hate, instead they "like to hate". People want to be in on the joke. It's a part of that "wrestling should be fun" outlook that makes the Dickplex a thing. Nobody wants a heel to offend them, make them legitimately angry and make them want to see that guy bleed. Fans, in general, want it to be fun, not real. And it's to the detriment of the business.

You cannot be a good heel if you do not give credit to your opposition.

This is some really simplistic stuff that's not true at all and so many wrestlers believe. Somewhere, someone said that you have to put your opponent over in your promos and what you do in the ring. That's not true, you have to not bury them, but that's not the same as giving them credit or putting them over. If I say you're a piece of shit who has no business being in the ring with me, and I lose to you I've just lost to a piece of shit who had no business being in the ring with me. But I don't have to put over your skill and ability. That's a really simplified view that people have put out there to explain things as easily as possible. It's like saying that the format of match you're taught in training is the only correct format.

Yes, I'm going to sell your shit in the ring and try to make you look as good as possible, because I trust that you are going to do the same for me. But it's not my job to make the guy I'm working with look like a star.

Corbin also doesn't really control that he comes out and is always put in an advantageous position.

EDIT: For the record, I am not in love with the idea of Kurt vs Corbin at Mania. I understand the idea of wanting to use Angle's star power to put over a younger, newer face at WrestleMania instead of going to the well of Cena or a legend, but at the same time when you're announcing in advance that it's Kurt's last match I think they should have gone with someone from his past like Cena.

I'm not sure what the answer there is. Neither one is perfect, and I think they went with the one that's better for future business, but the Kurt Angle fan in me would love to see something different. It's really a shame that most of the people he had some of his best and most memorable matches and moments with are either dead, not with the company anymore or long since retired. If the ywere going to seriously get behind Shelton Benjamin at any point. Kurt vs Benjamin at Mania would have a nice bookend feel.

[Powder]

There was a time where you just hated guys.

This all falls to the fact that the interwebs destroyed kayfabe, and now Vince pulls back his own curtain with all his behind the scenes specials (365, 24, Chronicle etc) Total Divas. and Miz and Mrs. All those shows coupled with the internet have destroyed kayfabe and the fans all know it. When I was a kid in the 1980s kayfabe was still intact, so I hated all the heels. I remember watching Mickey and Maude (a horrible 80s Movie) that had pro wrestlers in it including Andre and Studd, and I rented it from a video store distinctly to find out their real names in the credits. But Kayfabe was still intact.

Now you can't "hate" the heels because we all know they are playing a part. It's like hating any actor who is the villain in any movie. We know that Bryan is one of the nicest guys on the roster, but he is playing the role of a complete dick. That is the problem.

[Mr Chop]

Now you can't "hate" the heels because we all know they are playing a part. It's like hating any actor who is the villain in any movie. We know that Bryan is one of the nicest guys on the roster, but he is playing the role of a complete dick. That is the problem.

It isn't though. I hate Biff Tannen, I don't hate the guy that played him. When I'm watching a movie, a good one at least, I shouldn't be thinking about the actor. There's no reason why wrestling should be any different. I shouldn't be thinking "Kevin Owens is sure portraying a heel in an interesting fashion" I should be thinking he's a piece of shit and wanting the hero to stomp him.

Like, I loved Alan Rickman in Die Hard, but I was glad John McClane threw Hans Gruber out a Window. We should be able to enjoy a performer and still hate the character he's playing. I think for a lot of fans now the performance is all that matters. That's not entirely the fans fault, WWE definitely has blame because they routinely fail to present interesting stories/characters. So perhaps there's an element of the fans just trying to find SOMETHING to enjoy.

[Prime Time]

There's no reason why wrestling should be any different.

Have to agree to disagree on that. As far as I'm concerned wrestling was different for most of its history, and that's what made it special. To me if you abandon that, it's really stopped being wrestling.

[LK3185]

I just think times are different and the old way of doing things just don't work. Sometimes they do work and I'm not saying that Corbin isn't doing the job that he was asked to do while doing it pretty effectively. He is exactly what they want especially in that heel authority type figure.

However, I don't like the guy doesn't = I want to see him get beat up partially because as much as I try to invest in the product, there's so much weird logic in the stories that most times, it takes me right out of being invested. So if i'm not invested in the story (like I was/have been for Kofi) then I want something I will enjoy or at the very least not think is stupid. I think of Corbin as a joke and as such, having Kurt pick him to be his last opponent feels false. In character, it seemed to me Angle got what he wanted. So now he should go out against his handpicked guy.. Similar to Flair picking HBK.

Of course a Corbin match would have a negative reaction.

[Oliver]

I'd thought they'd set up Angle vs Corbin because it would be a relatively easy win for Angle to see him off into the sunset without him having to wrestle 15+ minutes and nearly die because his neck fell out of his ear.

To be honest, I thought it was pretty clever booking. Corbin is (relatively) hated by the crowd, Angle will get a swansong, and it's all tied up in five minutes of in ring action.

[King Kong Sundae]

Honestly never thought a PPV go home RAW would have Corbin standing tall over the champ...

[LifeLostInRewind]

Honestly never thought a PPV go home RAW would have Corbin standing tall over the champ...

They have to make him look at least a little credible leading up to the match.

[PEN15v2]

In the era of smart fans and cool heels, Baron is a huge asset. The problem is that his in ring work isn't great. You don't need to be a technical master or a lazy heel to be a main event player, but his in ring stuff doesn't match the character. He's still wrestling at the Lone Wolf, and not the Former GM.

I thin they need to bring in his Golden Gloves history more, make his strikes count even more.

[Powder]

I really hated that Hardy beat Corbin in a few minutes. I do not care that there was an Elias distraction, it took Roman Reigns months to finally beat Corbin and Hardy does it in a few minutes?

[King Kong Sundae]

Now he is qualified is it worth having Corbin with the briefcase again and then working a story off what happened to him last time? Done well I think that could be fun as he tries to avoid another embarrassing night though I think he would have to win this time.

[Powder]

I know the suspension of disbelief is 100% required when watching wrestling (any professional organization from the smallest indy to the WWE), but this is a little too much.

https://wrestlingheadlines.com/wwe-w...y-in-the-bank/

'Attempted Murder Heat'? We all know that neither Rey or Black were in any danger, and various shots of the roof from the drone showed the secondary and lower landing roof, but if Vince's idea was to get Attempted murder heat, then he Corbin laughs it off....Why wasn't there an arrest for Corbin on Monday? The WWE used to have people taken away in cuffs all the time. So why not have Corbin 'arrested'? Then is could be worked into the story by having both Rey and Black drop all charges in liue of 'getting their hands on him'.

But if the idea was just to get 'Attempted Murder Heat', that is pushing the envelope way too far.