Live WWE TV Discussion Thread

[PEN15v2]

I hope it ties into the SD hacker angle, only because I want some follow up to that.

[Team Farrell]

I didn't hate the women dancing. It didn't really add anything, but it was just different. What other promotion in 2020 would dare having girls dance for just the sake of being eye candy. What they need are girls that actually look like they want to be there rather than like they're dancing for heroin. I'll bet it was PC recruits that were asked if they wanted to be on Raw that night without being told what they'd be doing until it was too late.

Cutting back to them at random was a little odd, but I think that it was an attempt to hide really egregious edits.

[PEN15v2]

Honestly, 20 years ago before I quit following hockey, I bragged that hockey was an entertaining enough sport that it didn't need dumb cheerleaders the way lame football does.
Then they had cheerleaders in the stands giving out free tshirts and dancing between commercials... Dumb.

I really think having the dancers looks cheap, and it isn't coming from a PC liberal perspective. It's just lame and immature. If it's meant to represent underground fighting or fight clubs, that wouldn't be anywhere close to realistic. It was lame in TNA 2002, it's lame today.


I noticed the ratings went up for Raw this week. I am not saying it's a sign that what WWE did worked. I think what "worked" was advertising that it was going to be different somehow. It's entirely possible the idea failed as bad as online opinions have indicated, and ratings go back down next week. But I hope WWE sticks with it even with the critical response. The idea wasn't perfect, and arguably wasn't even good to start, but the potential is there. And I do think this idea might be panned by hardcore fans but might work for casuals or any other demo. So I truly hope WWE keeps it up and gives these segments some additional attention.

I also like the idea of holding it just in the final hour of Raw. Having people stay for all 3 hours will always be tough, but anything devoted to that final hour that can get hype during the first 2 hours will be helpful. And, if this is a less PG environment, it makes sense to be on last.

It needs work. A lot of work. But I truly think this concept is worth working through the hiccups.

[Degenerate]

I'm not sure how I feel about the Thunderdome setup after watching Smackdown. The production is visually impressive, but it feels too slick, if that makes sense. All the lasers and lights felt really overwhelming at times and distracted from the core part of the show - the actual wrestling. But I guess this company hasn't been about wrestling for a long time.

The whole "crowd" thing wasn't horrible and I don't mind it. But I'm wondering, did it really add anything of value to the production? Most of the screens just showed expressionless faces, with very few people visibly clapping or cheering. I also felt like the cameras were actively avoiding showing the fans for too long. I don't think they're piping in any sound from the fans either. So what's the point of it? I'm already missing the WWE trainees from the Performance Center.

The main thing I really disliked is the fake crowd noise. It just sounded like a low-powered blow dryer for the entire show. I don't know how they can deal with this with the current setup. I wouldn't want to risk using the sound from the people streaming in. As I mentioned in another thread, maybe I just need to get used to this whole thing.

[PEN15v2]

I think a combo of the trainees and the screens would be best. Get some genuine noise in the mix.

[Team Farrell]

Takeover was pretty good. Cole vs McAfee exceeded my expectations and was arguably match on the night.

The main event was alright, but working the arm felt like exactly what I'd just watched with the women, and it went on way too long. If it had ended with Keith Lee passing out to the Cross Jacket the first time, I would have called it a great match, but it felt like they were just trying to get a traditional long NXT main event out of it.

[The Cook]

I'd say it was probably the worst TakeOver they've done.

Main event was OK but nowhere near the quality of previous ones, although the injury to Kross may have played a part in that.

Cole/McAfee went way way too long and was average at best. The Ladder Match was probably the best of the night but it paled in comparison to the one that crowned the inaugural NA champion two years ago. Balor/Thatcher & Shirai/Kai were decent but nothing to write home about.

[Team Farrell]

How could you possibly say that McAfee vs Cole was "average"? This was a guy who's not a wrestler coming in to his first ever pro wrestling match and putting on something that could have gone on any card anywhere in the world and not been laughed at. To me, that's pretty damn remarkable. They might not have had a New Japan main event, but they were never going to.

[The Cook]

McAfee's performance was exceptional, I certainly get that, but I still view matches involving non-wrestlers as wrestling matches and if this was Cole vs. an actual NXT roster member and they put on this match it would be mauled. That's all I meant.

[PEN15v2]

COACH, it's odd you calling the match anything but average, because if seems like you're grading on a curve for the non-wrestler - which is exactly what you don't like about how people review women's wrestling?

[Team Farrell]

Women's wrestlers are, theoretically, trained professional wrestlers and I hold all of them to the same standard. McAfee is a pro athlete doing something outside his profession, so I'm willing to give him a break. If women's wrestlers are going to be positioned as an "extra" or an attraction like midgets or catfights, I'll give them the same break but if the girls want to be equal, I'll grade them equally.

But that Cole-McAfee match as an undercard "sports entertainment" gimmick was pretty damn good. Plus, I was impressed with McAfee's athleticism and from what I saw if he wants to do this he'll be pretty damn good. It probably could have been a little more gaga and sports entertainment, but they played it straight and McAfee impressed the hell out of me.

If he'd come out with two left feet and treated it like a joke, I would be the first in line to shit all over it. But other than a pair of weak lock-ups at the start and some iffy strikes, he was as good as half the underneath talent in NXT. He looked like a professional athlete in an athletic contest, and that's what I need.

I do have a couple friends who disagreed and skipped the match entirely after the garbage lock-ups.

But for me, even if he wasn't a pro football player and was just an NXT talent, I'd still call that match really good. Main event? No. But a really good undercard match. Maybe my opinion was tainted somewhat because I'm sick of every Takeover match trying to be a main event, so I'm bored and sick of main event matches by the time I get to the actual main event.

[Team Farrell]

Are we ready to cool it on the dives yet?

Ivar suffered what they're calling a "cervical injury" on a suicide dive where he was caught perfectly by three big guys.

The dude's 300-lbs. He's athletic, I get that, but when can wrestlers stop trying to have a five star match every night and just wrestle to their size sometimes?

When everyone can do it, doing it doesn't mean anything. When the Cruiserweights, specifically the foreign ones, were doing big dives in WCW it was amazing because they were the only ones doing them. When the heavyweight division is doing them and superheavyweights are doing them and the women are doing them and I've seen midgets do them and unathletic looking fucks are doing them, it means anyone can do them and they aren't special or impressive.

[Degenerate]

That really sucks. When I saw it, it didn't look like he landed awkwardly or anything. He just crumpled to the ground. That's some scary stuff right there. I hope the big men in particular stop doing them. Especially Big E - I have no idea how he hasn't seriously hurt himself with one of those suicide dives yet.

In other news, I have to say that I enjoyed the visual of the entire Mysterio family beating down on poor ol' Murphy at the end of this week's Raw.

[Buzzard Guts]

In an era where escalation and desensitization is at it's highest, isn't it "too little, too late" for the big guys to dial back on the high risk moves?

[PEN15v2]

It's never too late. Just like WWE backed up on PileDrivers and blood, they can back up on 18 variants of topes.