Live WWE TV Discussion Thread

[Oliver]

Which I guess says it all to the reasoning behind them making the title change!

[Powder]

Goldberg with the title and a supposed SD appearance, with a confrontation from either Reigns or the Fiend plus Cena's return. Interesting.

[Powder]

Since Taker was a surprise entrant in Super Showdown and it was the beginning of the AJ/Taker feud AND it was just announced that we are getting AJ vs Black tonight on RAW, after the Club attacked Black, does that mean we may get a Taker Appearance tonight on RAW to distract AJ?

Taker does not even have to show up, just his Gong rings, AJ turns away and Black hits the Black Mass.

[PEN15v2]

Mixing Black with anything Undertaker related is fascinating to me.


Aleister Black vs. AJ Styles
Asuka vs. Shayna Baszler
Raw Tag Team Championship Match: The Street Profits vs. Seth Rollins and Murphy
WWE 24/7 Championship Match: Riddick Moss defends against mystery opponent
Humberto Carrillo and Rey Mysterio vs. Andrade and Angel Garza
Beth Phoenix appearance

If AEW has had any real effect on Raw (though it could also be the Paul Heyman influence), it's how they are booking TV in advance, with proper announcements. It felt like for years we wouldn't know what to expect until we tuned in.

[Oliver]

If Black had been around 20 years ago, you know he'd have been in the Ministry. Right look and feel as a character. I'd be interested to see them together in some way, I don't know how you get there but either a team up (I'd mark for this becoming a six man, Taker, Kane and Black vs Styles and the Good Brothers) or a little rivalry.

[Powder]

You can clearly see Heyman's influence on RAW. Drew McIntyre was made tonight with the 3 Claymores on Lesnar.

And the Street Profits won dirty, but still won the Tag Titles.

And that was Randy Orton's best work in the WWE.

[Oliver]

For all his faults, Orton has become an amazing actor and really shown it through this stuff with Edge/Beth. He's very, very good at working the crowd/audience just through his body motions and facial expressions - for me, I could almost see the cogs turning after the Beth slap and into the subsequent RKO last night.

I'm not sure I'd consider Drew 'made' after just those 3 Claymore Kicks. BUT what they do do is show that he has a weapon in his arsenal that can and will put Brock down, and that he doesn't need anything other than the smallest window to hit it. That's good work.

[Powder]

What I meant by made was that since the McIntyre face turn and Rumble win, he has been getting cheers and positive reactions, but not huge pops. McIntyre was getting luke warm reactions, but positive ones.

Then last night when was Heyman doing what he does best, having the crowd in the palm of his hands, and whenever he mentioned the words 'Drew' or 'McIntyre' they were once again getting a luke warm positive reaction. Not a big pop for the Rumble winner and the face of the Main Event of WM.

Then when Mcintyre's music hit, another luke warm positive reaction. After the Claymore, a much bigger pop. Then after the second a really big pop, and a huge pop for the third with Drew raising the title. That is what I meant. Heyman orchestrated the segment to eliminate the luke warm pops, and to make sure that McIntyre gets those huge pops all in about 15 minutes.

Aside: When the camera had close ups on Heyman when Lesnar was coming out of the ring after the first Claymore, you clearly heard and saw Heyman giving Lesnar directions about how to continue to sell the kick, and how to act, and what was going to happen. Also, Lesnar can sell like a champ.

[PEN15v2]

I think we have different definitions of lukewarm. To Me, Lucha House Party gets lukewarm reactions. Drew has been getting pretty solid reactions since the Rumble. But you're right in saying that the crowd was much more into Drew after last night's show in just a short 3 kick no word segment from Drew.

[Oliver]

I think that's something which should be used more often, actually - the no word 'promo', if you like. That Taker/HHH interaction before their second Mania match, which was completely silent, was excellent. Roman's 'this is my yard now' promo was built on silence.

Ask yourself whether that segment would have been more impactful with Drew coming out and spending 5 minutes saying he'd beat Lesnar at Mania before hitting that first Claymore Kick - I think the answer is no.

[Powder]

Also, what you do not realize about McIntyre is how big the guy actually is. He is billed as 6'5" and 265lbs of muscle (I think that Drew is actually a little heavier than 265 as Reigns is listed at the same weight, but looks much smaller, and Reigns is 2 inches shorter). Lesnar is thicker and 10lbs heavier, but he is also shorter than McIntyre, and that showed last night.

McIntyre, physically, I think matches up the best with Lesnar with all of his opponents, besides John Cena. Reigns without his vest looks smaller, and McIntyre just has that look to him.

Both guys can go, and I hope that the match is a back and forth contest, and Lesnar actually wrestles, and not Suplex, Suplex, Suplex.

[PEN15v2]

I think you'll be disappointed, Powder. I think it's unfair to expect someone who's done so well with so few moves to suddenly change. Like Hogan in the 80s, Brock is capable of more, but that's not what he's asked to do.

I can't stress enough how much I've enjoyed the quick bangers Brock has unleashed since he won the title the first time. On their own, they aren't special. But in the era of Bucks spamming finishers, or Japanese supposed epics for 30+ minutes, Brock's violent sprint matches stand out. McIntyre has the rest of his career to have the type of match you're looking for. But I want him to brawl with Brock, a hockey fight with throws and a boot to the face (which wouldn't be very proper in hockey).

[Oliver]

Is anybody else a little surprised about how little they developed Becky vs Shayna last night on Raw? Becky opened the show with a promo on Shayna, but otherwise there was very little to develop that story, despite it main eventing the EC PPV.

I have kind of come to terms that Becky/Shayna is not going to be a super high profile match on the Mania card, but it seemedweird to me to not go pretty much immediately to some kind of physicality between them. Shayna wasn't even on the show, an Becky's promo was pretty perfunctory.

[Powder]

I guess that is due to Becky quoting Tito (about his description of ADR) that Shayna is a Black Hole Of Charisma, which she is. Shayna cannot cut a compelling promo, or go toe to toe with Becky on the mic, as she will get eaten alive by Becky.

What would do wonders for Shayna is a sit down interview, like the WWE does with Brock. Brock is well spoken and effective, when he does not have to have a live mic, and is in a smaller, less intimidating setting. Shayna may be the same. Have a sit down, with highlights of her MMA past, and her NXT runs, and then EC win. That will make her seem more legit and less boring.

[PEN15v2]

No. With so many "high profile" matches for Mania, some weeks will have extra attention for some angles, with less for others. Last week had a BUNCH of Lesnar/McIntyre promotion, but barely anything this week. It balances out.