Live WWE TV Discussion Thread

[Oliver]

I ask this as someone who's only skimmed the headline news, but are they really setting up for Logan Paul vs Roman Reigns?

[PEN15v2]

Concerning complaining about Sasha/Naomi not showing up, I think it's really unfair to judge any segment based on being disappointed about rumors not being true. We don't know their status. There might be a big reveal planned for a big show. They might not be available.

Edge got the most out of Dom. Much better than expected. Still not amazing, but that was possibly Dom's best match.
And praise evil Rhea. She's breaking out as a huge star without even wrestling. When she finally gets face to face with Bianca or whoever is champ at that time, it'll be great.

[Oliver]

I don't disagree, exactly, on the Owens promo - I think it's spot on, really, but I also think that's a relatively easy promo to cut in pretty much any circumstance. It leans into the type of guy I think Owens has always been, a guy who does this because he loves it and despite of his specific look has thrived based on his passion and love of wrestling itself. But anybody could deliver that promo and it hit the mark because it's a very natural feeling of someone getting ahead because of how they look rather than what they can do. And of course we saw Theory getting his leg up as an on screen Vince project as well, so it kind of puts the HHH era at odds with the Vince era.

On the second point, maybe Naomi and Sasha just aren't coming back? I know that goes against the rumour mill, but I wouldn't be surprised if even with the change in leadership the view of the both walking out is the same.

[Powder]

I was talking with Pen last night, and I said that KO's promo was one of the best of all time. No joke. It's not Hard Times. But it has the raw emotion and all about the business and speaks to literally everyone who has ever laced up a pair of boots. On par with Cane Dewey.


I also think that the WWE missed an opportunity to bring back Sasha and Naomi last night. When Damage Control was beating down Bianca, that was the perfect time to bring them back. Sasha's music hits and Bayley stops in her tracks, and out come Sasha and Naomi. Oh well.

[Oliver]

Watching the women's tag match, and I can't help but feel a bit like I felt about Sasha about Dakota. I'm a fan of both, but I don't think either of them comes off as actually believing they're hitting people in the ring. I don't know if that's because they're relatively small - in fact, I don't think they actually are, relatively speaking - or because there's something in their wrestling specifically, but it seems like they never really go 100% for things, like they're always holding back a step and working at 90%.

On the size thing, I used to think this was a thing with Sasha as she really does come across as small both on screen and in pure numbers. But Dakota is not dissimilar to Iyo, and yet I believe everything Iyo does in the ring is intended to hurt. With Kai, I don't get that feeling.

EDIT: I'm sure this is going to get a lot of tongues wagging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC9ig3vILQ8&ab_channel=YourTribalChief

[PEN15v2]

Raw Preview (vs NFL season debut)
Matches

• Edge vs Dominik Mysterio
• Johnny Gargano vs ? - Gargano's in ring debut/return
• Bianca Belair vs ? - Open Challenge for the Raw Women's Championship
• Raquel / Aliyah vs Dakota and Iyo - Women's Tag Team Championship

Doesn't look like anything that will give us quality like Gunther/Sheamus, and more of a story based show. Building towards Extreme Rules (ER) in some way.

For that reason, I suspect Bayley's title shot will likely be at ER. With her cohorts already in a match, we'll either see a random title defense vs Tamina or Dana or someone along those lines, or it'll be Bayley with a schmoz ending.

As for the women's tag titles, I seem to see a lot of online belief that we'll see new champs. I'm not so sure. Raquel losing the titles so quickly doesn't do her a lot of favors, and I feel of the 4 women involved, a booker would see her as the priority. She's got more of a future than the others. This isn't a knock on Iyo or Dakota, but they are well protected in a loss and won't be hurt by this. Aliyah taking the pin is most likely if there is a title change, so Raquel is fine, but her momentum is stopped. I'm not sure what else she'll do if not holding the tag titles.

That being said, if Naomi and Sasha are to return, the more logical champions to face them will be Iyo/Dakota. So we shall see.

I don't think Judgment Day vs Edge will get very far. I do not hate Domink like many online, but I don't think he's capable of leading a match as a heel yet. So this won't get a lot of time between the bells, most likely setting up a No DQ type match for ER.

Gargano has been interesting since returning, but his babyface wrestling is often not to my taste. It'll be very choreographed. This will likely be kept short, but it's not something I'm excited for.

[PEN15v2]

That 6 man tag was amazing. I love the bizarre face turn for the Brutes, and damn do Sheamus and Butch nail it. Ridge tried, but was a step behind. I was thinking that as a a filler feud between bigger title matches, Sheamus and the Brutes vs Roman and the Bloodline would be amazing right now. I'm sure Gunther will be in the top title picture at some point, but it's very likely Roman won't be dropping any title until a big event like Wrestlemania. Roman will need to defend and win, and Sheamus is a smarter option as he can take the loss without hurting his future.

Ronda as the challenger again, I really don't think she can be unsuccessful again without it deflating the title picture. Liv has had a smart run, never actually looking superior, but outsmarting or enduring just enough to sneak out a win. I still don't think she should be champion, but they've done it well so far. All that being said, to have Ronda of all people lose again feels like it'll cross the line.

Concerning Ronda and Shayna, they might be heading towards a team, or maybe a feud. I think the team is smarter, but I sense it'll be a feud. Shayna costs Ronda the victory, keeping Liv as Champ and and Shayna the heel in that angle. The issue I have with this is as much as I enjoy what Ronda and Shayna can offer, I don't see them being good opponents. I don't think either of them are ring generals. I don't think either are strong enough on the mic or in pretapes to carry a vicious rivalry. I could be wrong, because they've both shown the ability, but it seems like it's the dance partner that really carries these women to the above average performances.

Solo Sikoa has the best entrance in WWE right now. It was like a rock show with the lasers coming from behind him.

I wasn't a fan of how the Braun segment went. I'm glad there's a continuing thread with American Alpha being upset, but I was hoping for an explanation for why Braun chose that Raw moment to attack 8 guys. It's forgivable, but it's the one major angle that seems out of place from what HHH has done since starting.

[Oliver]

That five-way match is really interesting. I think the most interesting way to go might be Sonya out of the options, but can see Natalya winning. I'd like to see them break Rousey off into a non-title feud with someone, either coming out of the other four in that match or with someone interfering to cost her - I'm not sure who, the only names who spring to mind that aren't in the match are Shotzi and Shayna, and while I like both options neither seems to make too much sense to me although I suspect they could explain it well enough if they did something with one of them.

Xia Li was definitely a lot of fun in NXT, regardless of role. I liked her.

In my head I feel like all the teams from Monday should just gang up on Braun and beat him down for some reason, which doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense. Most likely he makes some statement about gunning for Roman, but then gets interrupted or similar to grow another feud,

[PEN15v2]

Braun.
Giovanni Vinci
Solo Sikoa

3 new roster members that we may see tonight on Smackdown.

I hope there's a follow up to Braun interrupting the tag team contenders match. If that attack gets ignored, that will be a dropped ball and return to former writing after the recent changes.

I'm sorry that it's the end of the Italian model character Giovanni had in NXT 2.0 recently.

Heel Solo Sikoa will be interesting. I REALLY enjoyed his babyface tough guy character on NXT, but that sort of gimmick isn't as unique on the main roster. So we'll see how they adapt him into the Bloodline.


EDIT
Some matches are now confirmed:

• Ronda Rousey vs. Lacey Evans vs. Xia Li vs. Natalya vs. Sonya Deville - Fatal 5-Way Contenders Match
• The Street Profits & Hit Row vs. Maximum Male Models & Los Lotharios

Xia Li is someone that made a great impression on me in NXT. I'm hoping she can get more focus with HHH backing her up. Her mysterious heel angle with Boa and Mei Ying seemed to end early. Maybe that might return? The superhero gimmick also had potential. But this random heel turn seemed badly thought out, and a refresh is needed.

[Oliver]

You can't blame any fan for thinking Drew was in his hometown or country. That's how the show was promoted by WWE for the last couple of months..

Oh yeah, I know. They do it constantly with UK shows. I think they were once saying Neville was in his hometown while they were in London, and the guy has the thickest Geordie accent I've ever heard. Always has been a bugbear of mine.

I think Drew not winning is actually more interesting than if he had. There's now Owens and Kross who have both been making overtures at having a title shot, Rollins who is really well placed and I think has been making noise about having one too. There's an argument for doing something with Zayn, I think, although he's probably not as legitimate a contender to Reigns as the other three. There's also the big return of Braun that's a bit of a wildcard in the equation.

I could certainly see them doing a fourway or fiveway main event at Extreme Rules for the number one contendership, followed up at Crown Jewel (I think that's next?) with a title match.

[PEN15v2]

Just to be clear, saying that Cardiff is 'effectively Drew's hometown' is a bit like saying that when AEW is in Des Moines Punk will get cheered because it's 'effectively his hometown'.

You can't blame any fan for thinking Drew was in his hometown or country. That's how the show was promoted by WWE for the last couple of months.

I thought it was a 50/50 chance of a new champion. I understand how all the pieces came together for a great Drew victory in front of "his" fans after winning the WWE title in an empty performance center. But the Roman story still has legs, and lots of options. And I can understand them preferring to have someone else defeat Roman, like Cody or The Rock.

In the end, the victory in front of an audience isn't a factor. Why should I care if Drew McIntyre won a title in front of a live crowd? It was a dumb preconceived notion by online fans who pay attention to the most useless details. In the end, that doesn't change anything for WWE, and it doesn't change anything for the fans. I'm sure Drew knew months ago he wasn't going to win.

[Oliver]

Just to be clear, saying that Cardiff is 'effectively Drew's hometown' is a bit like saying that when AEW is in Des Moines Punk will get cheered because it's 'effectively his hometown'.

I'm happy Roman won again. It's absolutely how it should be on, essentially, a filler 'premium live event'. Just because it took place elsewhere isn't reason enough to have a title change. It also means we're heading towards - I suspect - Reigns vs Kross which is a really interesting proposition.

[PEN15v2]

I'm not answering about the women and men stuff. It's silly.

Great show. Liv did better than expected, and had her best match so far. It was average, but still impressive. All the other main cards matches were great.

Love the press conference idea. It was very standard this time, but it opens up a lot of opportunities.

The Dominic turn was really well done. So was the Tyson Fury punch to Theory. Solo Sikoa has been a star in NXT, so I'm glad to see him on the main roster.


"People are pissed that Roman won again."
This is how heels work. Roman was as true a heel has he's been in years. As the Head of the Table, most fans acknowledge him and cheer. But this was on another level. UK fans still had their fingers in the air at the beginning, but were salivating for Drew to win by the end.

So to all the upset twitter fans who will tune in Monday and for Extreme Rules: You got worked. That's the fun of it. Enjoy the ride.


EDIT
Drew singing is NOT like Luger at Summerslam 93. Luger was celebrating. Drew and Tyson both were really careful to setup that "it didn't go Drew's way, but it's time to get back up and fight another day."

Only thick Internet fans can't see the difference.

[Powder]

First off let me state officially, that I do not have a problem with intergender matches, or performing any/all wrestling moves upon the opposite sex. After all, everyone knows that wrestling is "fake", scripted, predetermined outcome, or any other synonym one would like to call it. Essentially wrestling is performance art that is done live. So there is basically NO DIFFERENCE between wrestling and, lets say, any martial art movie/show, any Superhero movie/show, any action movie/show, etc. You get my point. But what is my point, you are asking? Well in all of those entertainment shows/movies, there is no hesitation for a male character to fight a female character. If a female is attacking the male, the male defends himself, and fights back. Period. He does not cower back and wonder "how will the optics of this look?" "Will I be vilified if I hit her back?".

So why am I stating this? Because I fucking HATE, HATE, HATE, that the WWE is afraid to allow the men to defend themselves against the attack, and yes they are attacks from the female wrestlers. In the past few weeks alone, we have seen Rhea Ripley attack, Rey, Dominick, Edge, and Finn (before he turned heel) with punches, kicks and weapons, most notably chairs. But what to all the men do? Back away and act like hitting Rhea is the worst thing you can do.

Then look to Rhonda Rousey. In the same few weeks, we have seen Rhonda attack a referee, multiple security guards, and last night Adam Pierce, all with no male fighting back. I used to work security in arenas, most notably in Nassau Coliseum (mostly remembered in WWF lore where it was one venue for WM2, and SummerSlam 2002) and we were trained and told that if women are the aggressors, we are allowed to "treat them like men" in that we are allowed to restrain them. Police are also allowed to restrain female aggressors. So why can't the male wrestlers? It makes no sense.

I get the optics of "men should not be hitting women", but in today's world, there are countless accounts of female on male assault and domestic violence charges, where the woman was the aggressor. So if the WWE is allowing the women to attack the men, it is just as bad as the men attacking the women. Period.

Not so long ago, we had the Dudleys put women though tables. We had Chyna actually wrestling against men a winning the IC title as a result. And no one batted an eye and said OMFG, this is horrible. We have men and women competing against each other in sporting events all the time, most notably and most frequently and ironically in amateur wrestling!

And before anyone wants to accuse me of anything, there is absolutely no politics and definitely no attacks on transgendered people in this post. This rant has nothing to do about that. This is about how female wrestlers are attacking the men, and the men are just forced to get hit repeatedly without retribution.

So either allow the men to defend themselves or stop having the women attack the male wrestler, or security.

Otherwise, the WWE should come out and call out the MCU, the DCEU, and now the Star Wars Universe (b/c Sasha is fighting men as part of her character) etc. and say that if their scripted movies and shows can't have males defend or *gasp* even attack women, then the big companies should not either. Imagine how bad it would look if in the first Wonder Woman movie when she is gearing up to fight, that the men just sat back and pondered what to do b/c she is a woman. That is how pathetic Edge and Rey have been made to look with Rhea. And the security guards as well. I know, the security guards always look like doofuses , but sometimes they get shots in.

End Rant.




CATC:

Liv is still useless and should have lost and left the UK, the WWE, and the planet.


And about damn time Dominick turned!


People are pissed that Roman won again.

[Powder]

OK technically true, as Roman was DQed, but Rollins did not beat Roman for the titles, and was essentially out, but was outside the ropes.