Live WWE TV Discussion Thread

[Oliver]

I'll tell you what - I love what they did with Shayna last night. That's how you get her back on track.

Lashley just destroyed both the New Day and the Bloodline.

The WWE has done a remarkable job in making him a monster. How can they still keep him and Lesnar apart?

I don't think they will for long, Powder - the big question is how big they think the match is and how long they subsequently want to hold off on it. Do they think Lesnar vs Lashley has enough interest to be a Mania main event? Or do they need to strike while the iron is hot(tish) and get that on Survivor Series or the Rumble card?

I'm kind of in two minds about it - I personally think Lesnar vs Lashley is a big match, big enough to main event and not just 'headline' (if that's what they call the big matches on the Mania card nowadays) Mania. But is there six months worth of stalling they can do to get there or do they need to accelerate it?

Just personally, I'd be tempted to do a bit of fairly standard WWE booking - you keep Lashley hot through to the Rumble with a couple of these kind of segments against top folks. At the Rumble you do a Lashley/Lesnar staredown and one eliminates the other. Then you get to Mania with those two being the focus of each other.

There's a small - very small - part of me that thinks the alternative could be a hot way of doing it and achieves a lot. Lesnar wins the title at Crown Jewel with Heyman turning on the Bloodline, which has been teased. You then do Lesnar vs Big E at Survivor Series and have it end like Eddie vs Lesnar, with Lashley in the role of Goldberg. That then gives a big win to Big E over Lesnar, while starting to heat up Lashley vs Lesnar. You could then run Lesnar vs Reigns at the Rumble (maybe have Lashley cost Lesnar again, maybe not) and then run with Lesnar vs Lashley for Mania, possibly via a Lashley Rumble win.

I think that second plan is complicated, far more complicated than it needs to be possibly as this is a pretty simple one to get hot without the need for interference etc. I actually want to see a decent length Roman vs Big E match after their interactions last night, I think that could be really, really good.

[Powder]

I am not sure what to do, honestly.

See, what I wanted to happen was for Lashley to hold the title until Mania and to keep being the Almighty and this unstoppable monster. Completely different from Roman in that, while Roman wins and seems unbeatable, he does resort to cheating to win (via Uso interference at times), Lashley just beats the hell out of you. Then I wanted Drew to get drafted to SD to be a fresh opponent for Romana, and Lesnar to return at the Rumble, win and challenge Lashley for Mania, and Drew win the Chamber to challenge Roman.

Then you have 2 new and fresh matches for WM.
Drew vs Roman
Lashley vs Lesnar

[Oliver]

I'll say this, I made the above comment(s) before I'd seen the Raw main event with Lashley taking the pin. Not that there was a way out of that where WWE could have done anything 'good', for the record.

I think Lashley can still be that guy, though. With the draft coming up as well, there's countless ways of getting Lashley and Lesnar to cross paths:

- Lesnar wins the title, Lashley gets drafted, there's a title feud
- Lashley wins the title back, Lesnar gets drafted, there's a title feud
- Neither wins the title, one of them gets drafted, there's a non-title feud.

Personally I'd lean towards the last option. They can then do Drew vs Roman via the draft, Lesnar vs Lashley without the title, and Big E go into Mania as the champion against someone else - that's three fresh matches for Mania, all of which should be a main event level feud.

[PEN15v2]

I'll tell you what - I love what they did with Shayna last night. That's how you get her back on track.

I can't recall when or where I said it, but whenever someone complained that she was being wasted or buried in this tag team, I knew she was one angle away from being back in contention. It's why I find WWE drops the ball so bad with tag teams. Humberto Carillo was a jobber to the midcard, and is reinvented overnight in this team. Asuka ran her course in the main event, joined the Kabuki team with Kairi, and was rebuilt to take the Raw championship. There are so many ways to use talent without wasting them.

This isn't to say everyone should get TV time. I bring Asuka for another reason, but while she's not on TV, it's not like Raw is lacking women star power. It's healthy to let stars take TV time off, though it is rumored to be due to injury.

But Shayna could be drafted to SD and be right in line with Becky, Bianca and Sasha to run the blue brand. She could do it on Raw too, even after losing to Charlotte recently. All because random singles losses or tag team losses in a team don't weigh you down if you go into singles, and vice versa.

Solid show last night. I'm really enjoying Big E in the main event, and that Triple Threat was much better than I expected. It was a PPV main event quality match on TV. And I don't mean it should have been on PPV. I mean they wrestled it in a very PPV headlining style, and not the standard TV way.

WWE really solid in my opinion. I get it's not the cool brand and AEW has buzz for legit reasons. But I don't see the astounding failures on Raw, SD, or NXT that many online do. Lots of good stars, stories, and matches on a regular basis.

[PEN15v2]

Very solid Extreme Rules event. It's a shame I can't seem to find a way to pay for the WWE network legally in Canada without having cable because I do find I would get my money's worth.

The show reminded me of the New Generation/Attitude Era shows that were between the big 5. The WWE Champion was involved, but not with a Title match, while pushing the champion's angle with Lashley and booking a major main event for Raw. Not every title was on the line, and other than the women's singles division, there was only 1 titles per division that was defended (Raw tag but not SD tag, US but not IC...etc.).

One complaint was they didn't really use the gimmick much. I don't mean they needed 4 Extreme Rules matches, but they could have had stipulations for other matches. The 6 man was really good, but I imagined if it was a street fight or Tornado tag, reminding me of the Chicago Street Fight at Mania 13.

I also feel like more of the roster is involved with a meaningful story. Nothing revolutionary, and I know it's not cool like AEW. But Bianca vs Becky is a really good feud, the rise of Damian Priest is going really well and put Sheamus and Hardy to wise use, Usos as tag champs vs Profits made sense and was a solid match (with Gable/Otis confronting them on SD), Roman having several threats in Brock, Balor, Lashley and Big E all with heat against him, Liv vs Carmella (though I think the wrong person is getting pushed), Alexa being more of a competitor (and finding a new chapter of the Evil persona),

Non PPV angles that have been interesting to good:
Smackdown - Happy Corbin (w/ Moss) vs Owens, Dominick finding his way with his dad vs Zayn, Nakamura/Boogs vs Crews/Azeez, Rollins vs Edge, Naomi vs Sonya (bringing her back to the ring is great)
Raw - Riddle/Orton as tag champs, Doudrop overcoming Eva, Reinvention of Shayna, Drew MacIntyre staying strong, decent tag teams in Humberto/Angle, Ali/Mansoor, Mace/TBar, Vikings, Omos/AJ, New Day

[Team Farrell]

Unpopular online opinion: I loved the finish to the main event, but hated the stupid video game style red light power-up gimmick.

[Oliver]

I wouldn't go so far as loved, but I certainly liked it. The entire show from top to bottom ripped. Even Liv/Carmella on the pre-show was solid.

And Raw was solid last night, too. WWE on a little roll.

[Buzzard Guts]

A few things that crossed my mind during Extreme Rules:

- Credit to WWE for listening to the fans regarding Jeff Hardy. Immediately following the negative feedback of his booking in the 24/7 title segment he was placed in a PPV title match.

- Sheamus doing the "Hardy dance" from the top rope is the best thing in the history of things.

-After Jey's character development last year I feel like the Usos should do more to differentiate their look from each other.

[Team Farrell]

The girlfriend and her suddenly wrestling-obsessed girls watched 3/4 of Survivor Series last night.

• Charlotte vs Becky was the greatest thing those girls had ever seen. The 10-minute PPV prerun thing with Scott Stanford aired twice before the show started, and after it aired once they were so impatient to see Becky and Charlotte wrestle that it was crazy. They each decided on a different favourite for one reason or another and went nuts from start to finish.
• Interest dropped off a cliff during the men's five on five match and that atrocity of a battle royal. But the children were convinced that Jeff Hardy was a "bad guy" because his face "looks creepy". When things got down to Hardy/Sheamus vs Rollins/Theory there was more interest.
• Everyone was interested again in the RK-Bro vs Usos tag team match, but a lot of it was discussion about why Riddle would wrestle barefoot and how silly that was.
• I couldn't understand the personality piece packages on Lashley and Drew. I suppose you could say the Drew one was there to build him up for the Survivor Series match, but then I'd expect him to win it. However, then there's a Lashley one out of nowhere after he'd already lost. Did they expect to have two more Rock videos that weren't finished in time? Those would have been great videos to air on Raw or SmackDown before Lashley/Drew being pushes back to the top of the card.

Then I turned it off and maybe I'll finish it later if I hear good things about the main event.

But I was shocked that they were that interested in Becky and Charlotte. Other than matches on YouTube, I don't think those girls had ever watched a WWE show before. They really didn't know who Becky or Charlotte were before the match, but I don't think they took their eyes off of anything for 20 minutes.

[PEN15v2]

This is why we can get rematches every year or so, despite the online complaints. When the chemistry is THAT good, it just works. It might never be the best time, but it always could be the best time.

Loved that match.

[Team Farrell]

It was the first time I'd ever really gotten a sense of just how much little girls like women's wrestling. These kids love any wrestling you show them, but they didn't look away from the minute Charlotte made her entrance.

Here's the thing though. You want to make them lifelong fans? Show them a match like that. You want to scare them into never wanting to watch your product again, show them Britt Baker bleeding buckets after going through thumbtacks and tables.

It really goes to show the difference in approach between the two companies. Not that either approach is wrong. One is trying to put on a product that a kid who loves wrestling on YouTube and live but has never watched a full show will immediately fall in love with. The other is trying to put out a product that attracts the hardcore money-spending fans who like a certain thing a certain way.

[Oliver]

This is why we can get rematches every year or so, despite the online complaints. When the chemistry is THAT good, it just works. It might never be the best time, but it always could be the best time.

Loved that match.

The thing for me, as well, was that this had a shift in storyline behind it than their other stories. They've obviously wrestled before, but a lot of their matches have been a bit more straightforward storylines of someone having the belt and someone wanting the belt. This was different because of the stuff that went on before it, and the match then reflected that.

Having rematches is fine, but making them different each time is key, for me. That's the way you can get new fans to enjoy a match they've not seen before, but also interest fans that have seen it before.

[T.O.]

Speaking of rematches...

Book Rock/Cena III for the love of...

Randy Orton rules.

[PEN15v2]

To those who watched Smackdown tonight, that opening segment is among one of the worst WWE tropes. A shower opening promo is fine, but when it's interpreted over and over again, with each person getting a theme song played, and they speak their scripted live while the others in the ring forget that they have microphones and don't say anything, and are supposed to be professional fighters as they just stand there. The over scripting of these segments are painful.

[PEN15v2]

I'm officially at the point of skipping over Liv Morgan matches.