Live WWE TV Discussion Thread

[Powder]

What I do not get is upon their second appearance together, the WWE already was teasing tension between Eva and Piper.

Why so soon?

Let the story develop, give it time to breathe and become something

The most effective face or heel turns from a pairing happens after the pair has a lengthy relationship.

[Team Farrell]

I somewhat wonder if this isn't intended to be a longterm pairing, but instead it'll quickly become a feud.

The rumor was that Eva Marie was initially being brought in to get over a new wrestler. Niven is being positioned as kind of a super fan of Eva. So I wonder if fairly shortly she'll get sick of this shit and they'll feud, likely with Eva ducking her for as long as possible.

Say what you want about Niven, but from what little I've seen of her I do recall her being really good in the ring. I know she was my favourite in the MYC that year. So if you want to have someone who can make Eva look good, while creating an upper level star in the women's division quickly, it wouldn't be the worst way to do it.

[PEN15v2]

My faves from the MYC were Piper and Rhea, not so much in terms of talent in the moment, but potential to become big stars. I think WWE ended up getting a great amount of talent through the MYC before the women's divisions in all promotions blew up. Toni Storm, Io Shirai, Kairi Sane, Shayna Bayzler, Bianca Belair, Lacey Evans, Xia Li, Raquel, Dakota, Sarah Logan... all have had success, plus many that will likely have success in NXT or NXT UK.

Powder, the answer is to your question is they want to tell THIS story, not the one you assumed. I personally love it because I wouldn't exactly respect Piper for putting up with what Eva is putting her through so far. So by having her put a foot down from the beginning, we are taking her more seriously. If there were fans in attendance, she'd have been cheered for this while Eva would be booed.


I haven't finished Raw yet, but I really have enjoyed this show so far. Only questionable thing is the super hero Nikki, but it's no worse than what she was doing for the last 6 months. She's always been a little wacky and silly, so it's not a veer in a different direction. And she's full of the personality to make this work. The issue is more will booking help her with this gimmick? I'm less confident about that.

[Team Farrell]

I have a feeling they'll have Eva continue to treat her like shit in hopes of getting that big pop on one of the first shows back in front of people.

[Team Farrell]

Elias's gimmick is that he's a musician and he's actually written and performed fine entertaining songs. So they gave him generic fart rock entrance music sung by someone who obviously isn't him!?

[Oliver]

There's something there with Nikki Cross. I saw her wrestle a few times in the UK and it felt like she was OK, but there was another level for her to take. She certainly has improved since then, for me, but I still feel like her ladder has a couple more rungs to climb and she could easily be on top of either Raw or Smackdown's women's roster within 6-12 months if they really sustain some focus on her.

[PEN15v2]

There's something there with Nikki Cross. I saw her wrestle a few times in the UK and it felt like she was OK, but there was another level for her to take. She certainly has improved since then, for me, but I still feel like her ladder has a couple more rungs to climb and she could easily be on top of either Raw or Smackdown's women's roster within 6-12 months if they really sustain some focus on her.

She's so likable. Even in Sanity as a heel, she was the reason they needed to turn face because her manic energy was easy to get behind. As this super hero, there's potential. But as I mentioned at some point, the lack of division depth means it'll be a hard gimmick to push.

[Team Farrell]

I don't envision it as a serious, top, main eventing WrestleMania gimmick. But I definitely see it as a gigantic merch selling, money making gimmick that children and families will adore, and that she can earn income off of for the next 15 years. If she's 100% into it like Helms was, it'll catch fire.

I've always been a fan. It's the energy, like Oliver said. I know she pulls off the crazy person well, but there's too much of that in pro wrestling already. This is completely different.

[PEN15v2]

Raw had some good movement for newer stars. I'm intrigued by the Mansoor/Ali angle. Could they become a team, or rivals? Both ideas have potential. The stench of Retribution is slowly leaving Mace and TBar, and in the loss are still looking like a team to watch. Piper/Doudrop is looking great in her role, and is showing potential that the initial issues people had with the name on angle weren't expecting. And Riddle is definitely becoming a star.

Rhea/Charlotte is just not clicking somehow. I like the idea of anti hero Rhea doing heelish/copycat things to Charlotte, but the execution isn't working. That segment was way too long and didn't have enough going for it to get that point across. That's the risk of a character doing something to annoy a rival, because it's easy to annoy the audience as well. And waiting for Rhea to get to the ring was annoying. Once she got there, the microphone theatrics didn't take long, and getting them to dump their crutches was a decent ending, until it was ruined with the choreographed sword fight. I think a real weakness is that much like many NXT call ups, Rhea is just being put on TV without an explanation of who she is. In theory this isn't needed as 20-40% of the Raw audience likely caught her on NXT. The problem is that she isn't really the same character. She hasn't been consistently face or heel, so there's a disconnect. In general, I like the concept of Rhea saying she's equal to the Queen, and there's a definite way this can still work. But chances are this won't end up having great results. I hope Rhea doesn't suffer from it.

I don't hate pushing Jaxson in general, but this push isn't very good. And unfortunately because he's being associated with Cedric and R-Truth at this point, even if he beats Elias, he doesn't really come out looking great. Not sure what the point is here, but I'm hoping it is just to have a standard midcard face that's established enough to put over the heels who need it. I would have put Elias in that category, but at least with is character and mic skills he can overcome this loss.

Outside of those points, a very average Raw. Some good, some bad, but very little that is memorable.

[PEN15v2]

I'm really glad Liv didn't win. I don't care how popular she is with online fans, she's the most average wrestler on the entire roster of any gender. Nikki was a great choice.

I love Rhea and think she's the future. But this match is all the proof we need of how amazing Charlotte is. She'll never get the credit she deserves, but she's working the crowd better than Hogan in his heyday. Both women steering the crowd away from the Becky chants, having a great match, and FINALLY telling story that truly establishes Rhea as the babyface. She's been a tweener for this whole run. And while I would have preferred Rhea winning, this result helps the Becky story get started.

[Oliver]

Nikki was a great choice, and I loved the way she won - I've some reviewers, commentators give it crap because it made the other six women look stupid, but how many times have we seen a scene where they have those three ladders set up and they all fall down? Subverted my expectations from that spot, I must say.

I liked Rhea/Charlotte a lot more than I've liked any other Rhea/Charlotte match, which isn't a particularly high bar for me but I think they both really delivered last night. I don't think Rhea has quite got 'it' on the main roster in the way she did in NXT, and I can't quite put my finger on the specifics of why/how it's not worked as well.

One thing I didn't like is the Figure 8 - or at least the way it was used here. The left knee was the one that got injured, and to my mind the way that the Figure 8 then works is to exert pressure on the knee of the straight leg by forcing it to bend the opposite way to it's natural direction. But Flair applied it where the injured leg is the bent one and not the straight one. I know it's minor and nitpicky, but it really bugs me when I can see things like that. Very minor, and I'm sure I'm the only person bugged by it.

Just up to the men's ladder match, hoping Big E wins this one.

EDIT: Just to say it, but Nakamura has more 'drip' than Rollins and Morrison combined.

[The Cook]

I'm pretty sure that's what always with happens with the Figure 8 or 4, the knee they work on is the one that's bent during the move which has never made sense to me.

[Team Farrell]

The figure four always crosses the left shin over the right knee. It's just one of those things that people have been willing to overlook for decades.

I've got to check out MITB. I didn't watch it but by all accounts it sounds pretty damn good.

[Oliver]

Yeah, looking/thinking back it probably is just one of those things that has constantly happened. I think last night stuck out for me because it felt kind of obvious, especially immediately after the steps shot.

MitB is the first PPV I've sat and watched all of on one sitting since the Rumble, I think. Make of that what you wil when it comes to quality. The women's ladder took a bit of time to get going but once it did was pretty fun, and everything else delivered for where it was on the card. I wouldn't be surprised to see some people be a bit low on Kofi Vs Bobby but I likes it and it clearly had/served a purpose.

[knoM]

Some questionable decisions last night. Very surprised Keith Lee would return only to lose in that fashion. It's not like Raw is overflowing with contenders at the moment so you kind of immediately cooled off a guy who could have challenged Lashley coming out of SummerSlam. I know WWE likes having people lose in their home state but seems odd for a guy to show up after a 6 month absence and immediately lose.

Also I get Goldberg gets a bit of a pop still but he really can't compete at a decent level anymore. At the very least I hope he removes the Jackhammer from his moveset after botching it on Taker, Bray, and Drew. Personally I just don't see the appeal of the guy in a title match coming off losing two straight title matches.

Then you have poor Karrion Kross. That had to be the most baffling decision of the night. You take away Scarlett and tone down his entrance. Then you have him suffer his first one on one loss to Jeff Hardy in a matter of minutes. To your casual fan you run NXT commercials encouraging them to tune in and using Karrion Kross as the selling point on the very same show that he jobs to Jeff Hardy. It just instantly makes NXT look like the minor leagues. I understand it's a "developmental" league but NXT is it's own brand. Having Kross lose for the first time in a throw away match to me was always going to be a terrible idea. If you were deadset on that being the decision though at the very least have Joe come out and cause the distraction. That way you further their story and also let some of the fans in attendance that may not know that Joe is on NXT. Joe has that Raw connection since that's where he was before randomly disappearing in the eyes of fans who don't follow wrestling news. Therefore it serves as an update on where he is. I digress though, it really should have not been a loss for Kross at all if for no other reason then your champions shouldn't lose non-title matches very often. That's another point for another day though.

The return of the crowd helped some but Raw just still feels like the inferior product to Smackdown due to them constantly making head scratching decisions. Shame because MITB was a strong show so was looking forward to Raw for the first time in quite awhile.