Live WWE TV Discussion Thread

[PEN15v2]

Amateur hour production so far on NXT. Bad chemistry among the pre-show talking heads, and This live musical start is obviously not performed live.

[Team Farrell]

I really enjoyed the six man tag team match. It was a really fun opening match. It had the high spots from the smaller guys, and Bronson Reed being a giant. I would watch a rematch any time.

[Team Farrell]

I know that this fatal five way is going to be really long, and that's okay. But maaaaaaaan do I appreciate entrances for the main event of a PPV beginning before 7:45 on a Sunday.

This has been a really enjoyable show. If it only goes two and a half hours, I won't complain one single bit. Less is so much more, especially when the "less" is really good stuff, trimmed of any unnecessary fat.

[PEN15v2]

I'm a broken record, but any combination of these men without Cole would have been better. Gargano is also easily replaceable or removable. I was hoping the recent run of NXT title main events was a sign of them stepping away form the spotty nonsense stuff, but this match is bringing us back to that era.

[Team Farrell]

Oh my god, a two hour and 15 minute pay per view? 15/10, 36 stars, best show ever.

I agree Pen, I thought that the main event was the weakest match of the night, actually on a card that was very enjoyable overall.

I've said many times that I prefer one-on-one matches to any multi-man affair. And I think that Kross vs any of his opponents in a singles match would have been a better match. There was a lot of two guys in the ring with three not even selling on the floor, just staying out of the camera frame and a lot of obviously staged, cooperative, "waiting around" spots.

And then we get the the closing moment and...why exactly did that five way match over and above anything else in NXT history (Gargano and Ciampa were trying to commit homicide on a weekly basis) push Regal over the edge to quitting?

EDIT: Can anyone give me a reason why smart marks have turned on Kross? One that doesn't make me think they're dumbfucks?

[PEN15v2]

He doesn't do the moves and they think he's only pushed on his look.

To be fair, having him in NXT too long could be a bad idea. I do feel WWE is better off having a brand aimed towards smart marks. As much as I hate their tastes, NXT tends to be the most reliable brand in WWE.

But I was thinking as I watched this show that as much as I enjoyed it, I wasn't invested in much of it. It wasn't so much the lack of predictability, because other than the 2 women's matches I wasn't sure who would win. But the stories for these haven't been great. I loved seeing DiBiase lately, and Knight is a great heel. But the "face turn" for Grimes felt unfocused. I don't think that was the goal, but he was so charming and likable that he became a face. But I didn't really care about his desire to win the acceptance of DiBiase, or the title. As for the main, it's the standard multi person main event where there are lots of little stories, or big stories that don't get true focus (Cole vs Kyle).

Ah well, good show. Looking forward to the tornado tag on Tuesday. Hopefully we get some new blood in the main event soon.

[Oliver]

Yeah, a pretty solid - if relatively unspectacular - show from top to bottom, I think. There was nothing there they couldn't have done on weekly TV, with the only difference perhaps being presentation of the matches/arena itself. The biggest criticism seems to be that the show 'wasn't a Takeover', and I do wonder if they could instead use the In Your House brand without the Takeover stuck in front of it to be a kind of middle show that isn't expected to be 'a Takeover' - a bit like how they used to be when the IYH branding was originally used, for sure you sometimes got Mankind vs Michaels, but you also got Camp Cornette vs People's Posse.

I think the reports of Kross being 'fast tracked' have probably worked against him in some fans eyes, so they very much see his elevation to the main event - and the relative speed that it's happened with - as something which he's not earnt, despite him having as much indy street cred as some others that have turned up in NXT and they've decided they love as a result.

I think you're right on Grimes, Pen - I don't think he was supposed to end up as a face. I'm not sure whether Knight was supposed to be a heel or face based on presentation, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a bit of the same thing against him as Kross in a way so the fans would be against him regardless of who he stood opposite.

[Powder]

I am surprised that Kross did not drop the title in the multiman match, and then get moved to the main roster setting him up for a SummerSlam feud.

Losing the title without getting pinned or submitted protects him, and he can still keep that aura. Or is the WWE waiting to bring him up when the fans are back?

[PEN15v2]

Just because you want him on the main roster doesn't mean anyone has that plan currently.

And, if Kross was to drop the title, NXT would benefit from it being done more convincingly. It's how every champion I ca recall lost their titles before moving to Raw/SD. One on one unprotected loss.

[Powder]

I didn't say I wanted that, I said I was surprised.

[PEN15v2]

Then why are you surprised? There was no storyline reason he should lose. There was no hint of it from a main roster angle. There's no immediate feud formfitted for Kross to walk into. All signs point to Kross staying in NXT for now. I wouldn't expect him to leave until maybe the Rumble.

I'm probably confusing hope with a 6th sense of some kind, but I felt like with Kross defeating all the top NXt guys and Regal hinting he's out of the GM role in someway, that we might get someone from main roster to be the next challenger as well as someone else known as the boss.

[Powder]

That may be true....

But, and I know how you feel about rumors, and reports, but many reports have been stating that when the WWE goes back to live audiences, they will be bringing up (a bunch) of NXT talent to fill the roles of the talent who were released, as well as to expand the rosters to get more competition.

I would think that a guy like Kross, who as Coach stated, and we all have discussed, who stands head and shoulders over everyone on the NXT roster, and has a established gimmick, would make for a great main roster attraction.

Kross also does not wrestle the NXT/AEW indy darling style of match. He is a Vince type of guy. A big hoss, with power moves. He matches up physically with anyone on the main roster with immediate credibility. Kross could walk right up to Drew and not look over matched. Dunne, O'Reilly, Gargano, and lol Cole, could not. Dunne really uses his style and size better than anyone else his size against bigger opponents, but even if Dunne was called up, I do not see him being in a main event feud anytime soon. But Kross fits the mold, and wrestles in the way that Vince likes.

[PEN15v2]

Gee, I wonder why I assumed you wanted him on the main roster...

[Powder]

What I want is more NXT performers on the main roster, with their gimmicks not altered and given time. I do not want to see the same matches week in and week out. Look back at the AE, where the roster was huge, but everyone had a story and feud, and everyone from the top of the card to the bottom had something.

I want NXT to go back to the training ground, and used to train and give time, like FCW and the initial NXT brand was. The 'third brand' for me is fun, but treated like a minor league.

The main rosters need a shot in the arm, and have needed one for a few years. Look to who could be brought up and make the overall product better....right now.

Kross
Bronson Reed
O'Reilly
Dunne
Thatcher/Ciampa
MSK
Santo Escobar and Legado Del Fantasma

For the Women
Taya/Monet
Toni Storm
Mercedes Martinez
Io Sharai
and, yes Raquel

I do not want an invasion angle, I want all these performers to be on the main programming and treated like the stars they are in NXT. Give them TV time. Mix them in with the current rosters. By brining in all this talent makes for fresh products, new matchups, and more diverse feuds. With more people on the rosters, that means that we do not have to see (for instance) RKBro vs the New Day every Monday for 4-5 weeks straight.



But specifically about Kross. I would think that he has nothing left to prove in NXT, so a call up would be immanent. Why leave him in NXT for a few more months? He has been there for over a year (including injury) and has been established as a top talent, and the champion, twice. so why wait? The main roster needs him more than NXT does.

I will compare it to MLB. There are some guys that go straight to the Majors from the draft after college, and others who spend their life in the minors. And others who spend a year or two proving that they deserve a call up. Teams to not wait if the talent warrants the call up. Again, what does Kross have left to prove, besides doing the job on the way out? Nothing, so call him up.

[Team Farrell]

NXT isn't really treated like developmental anymore, though. It's a third brand on national TV. They've even been working on adding a new developmental show back to the Network.

The Attitude Era roster was a decent size, but it's a pretty big misconception that everyone had an angle going on. A lot of guys did, possibly more than today, but for the most part it was the top and upper midcard guys, like today. The difference is than anyone who wasn't at least some level of over was never featured on TV or was just crammed into the back of a stable.

Adding a dozen people to Raw or Smackdown doesn't guarantee more and varied matches. It probably means a dozen other guys on the sidelines, and people complaining that some underneath guy isn't being used on TV. Shit, they already bitch at Ali and Ricochet are on Superstars.

The other thing about Kross is that in NXT, he's a giant. He's special. He's Braun Strowman but he can move like a motherfucker. On the main roster? He's average upper card to main event size. He's the same size as Orton, Drew, Lashley, Reigns, Sheamus, etc. That's still a big dude, but he no longer leaps out to you.

I think he needs more time in NXT for them to figure out who he is. Is he dark and evil like his entrance and Scarlett would lend you to believe? Is he an MMA-influenced strike-suplex-submission guy like he wrestles? Is he unhinged and ready to snap at any moment like he promos? Or is he a normal, if somewhat intense, guy like he was when he relinquished the title?