WWE General Discussion Thread

[PEN15v2]

I think as fans we get so wrapped up in the moment that we forget the bigger picture easily. For example, in 2004, this place was shitting all over JBL left right and center. Horrible champion, couldn't work, blahblahblah.

Looking back we realize how amazing he was in that role. But at that time, the IWC wanted only a certain type of wrestling, and because JBL did a different style, he wasn't getting the credit. It's the retrospective look that finally clues us in to his value at that time.

I think the Bellas will have a similar story. Their work wasn't on the level of the tip top of the division from any era, and were glorified athletic models for most of their run. But when we look back at how they started as "divas" and then were part of the Evolution, and Nikki keeping up with Charlotte, Ronda, Becky, Sasha... Honestly, I'd rank her higher than Trish in terms of ring work. Character work is a closer call, but I think Trish gets a pass from many because she improved a lot in an era when most of the Divas were barely competent in the ring. Nikki improved in an era where the talent was more common across the board, so she didn't stand out as much. But in the end, she was really good for that year or 2.

[T.O.]

Jeeeesus, that's some rough update from HHH. That has to be scary shit.

[Powder]

Rumors are circling that Edge is going to be the leader of a stable coming as soon as Monday.

Rumors are also circling that Priest will be one of the members. I cannot tell you how much I hate that idea.

From the current RAW roster, I would put Austin Theory and Gable Stevenson in the stable. Both guys could learn a shitload from Edge.

If the stable will have NXT call ups, I would have the stable be Austin Theory and the Creed Brothers.

[The Cook]

With Edge's recent character I totally see why Damian Priest would be in it, it'll be some sort of "dark side" stable possibly like a modern day Brood. Can actually see Finn Balor also joining it but otherwise I'm not sure. Maybe Apollo Crews & Azeez as I remember Crews being someone Edge has spoken about wanting to work with. A really left field choice to join a "dark" stable would be Street Profits and with them acting more heelish recently I can see that too. Having said all that I'm not sure how good it'll be, could be very similar to AEW's House of Black now I think about it.

[Powder]

I just want Edge to teach some young talent in the way that HHH and Flair did for Orton and Batista, hence the reason I wanted Theory in the stable and possibly the Creed brothers.

[The Cook]

Yeah I think Edge leading an Evolution-like stable is a good idea but not sure it will be if it's Brood/House of Black-esque. Not sure The Creed's are ready but Theory would be a good idea. Now I think about it I can see Tommaso Ciampa joining it as it seems like he's on his way out of NXT.

[Powder]

Honest Question:

Why is it such a big deal for the WWE to acknowledge championship reigns on air from other promotions when they sign a talent?

For instance, in the NFL, if they signed a CFL player, they would acknowledge if that player was an MVP or champion. Doug Flute for instance.

In MMA, I'm sure that UFC would acknowledge a previous Belator champion if he/she signed with them.

So let's say that Brit Baker eventually signs with the WWE, why not acknowledge that she was AEW champion for a year? The fans know. The wrestlers know. AND it would make that her even more impressive.

[PEN15v2]

2 things
You say the fans know. The correction is that some of the fans know. Not all.
Second, if they did know, then why acknowledge it?

The major difference is that wrestling is built on competition between promotions much more than your other examples. Football, as little as I know about it, always have each league have their own season. I think there's a new USFL starting, and it's not playing during the NFL season. It's scheduled so there is little, or zero overlap.

Concerning MMA, when aPFL or Bellator guy enters the UFC, you are correct that their career is mentioned. But it's very quick usually, and UFC is treated like a completely different dimension. What we heard from Seth during the match match last night was essentially how the UFC commentary would handle it : he's a former PFL champion, but now he's in the UFC, and this is a different playing field.

So why don't WWE do this?

The MMA business model is very different. They aren't doing the same schedule. Wrestling has a strict weekly program schedule. UFC, Bellator, and PFL all do special events or PPV that isn't structured in schedule. They slay rarely overlap. It's incredibly rare that any of those promotions hold events on the same night as another. It does happen, but never PPV vs PPV. Granted, AEW and WWE won't hold PPVs on the same night either, but because it's a drama as well as sport, the risk is higher that someone will hear WWE mention AEW, check out Dynamite, and slowly leave WWE universe.

Wrestling is less sport than it is scripted drama, and that's the key here. That's the true comparison. And how often does CNN mention CNBC? Or how often does Survivor mention American Idol? The nature of the business of sporta is very different from other TV.

[Oliver]

Interesting that they look to be unifying the tag titles following on from the Universal/Heavyweight championship unification at Mania. I'm not mad at it - to be honest, I think they have too many titles spread over the two shows anyway, and unifying these doesn't hurt overall either - but it's going to be interesting to see how they handle them going forward.

[Powder]

What is really surprising to me is that both Networks of USA and Fox are agreeing to potentially losing titles and champions. Unless the champions will be on both shows moving forward.


Also, title related. During the Miz/Rhodes MizTV segment. Cody kept referring to the WWE Title as a belt, and Miz used Vince’s line of a Belt holds up your pants, this is a title.


And apparently Austin Theory's name has officially been shortened to Theory. I hope he uses something along the lines of “In Theory everything works” as a catchphrase. To me, that is a nice pun.

[Team Farrell]

It doesn't surprise me all that much that USA and FOX would go for it if they had someone smart to the business to make the argument. That very well might be Nick Khan's magic. He is getting smart to the business and speaks their language. If he could sell to them that in the previous title format the biggest stars couldn't be on both shows...but now they could have Roman or Brock on both shows when they're the Champion.


I dislike the change to Austin Theory. It's one of the times where Vince is wrong in hating first names. It's goofy and it doesn't pass the WrestleMania test.

[Powder]

I didn't say I liked that Theory has dropped his first name, like many other NXT stars have. I was just reporting information. I do not see why first names are taboo?

Some of the biggest names in wrestling all have first and last names.
Hulk Hogan
Randy Savage
Ric Flair
Steve Austin
Mick Foley
Bruno Sammartino
John Cena
Roman Reigns
Charlotte Flair
Becky Lynch
Kurt Angle
Chris Jericho

etc..

[PEN15v2]

My posts get flagged for spam when I correct typos, so I'll try this.

My guess is that he doesn't hate first names. But he likes avoiding confusion or bad names more. Austin Theory just shared the ring with Steve Austin. I completely get Vince not wanting to have Austin Theory to have that name, and removing it is probably better than replacing it. That was my first thought after that segment.

That being said, with people with names like Ricochet, Big E, Edge, The Miz, Riddle, Ivar, Mace, Shanky... Theory will be fine. This doesn't mean I'm a fan of it, but it's in no way going to hurt him, and complaining about it is beyond useless.

When it comes to complaining about names, I truly challenge anyone to name a time someone wasn't pushed or didn't succeed because their name sucked. The point is that if the name Theory doesn't work out, they'll likely change it at that point. If this turns out to be a bad move, it can be rectified easily. Doudrop will likely drop that name at some point when her character needs revamping, maybe with a face turn. It was fine for the angle with Eva Marie, but with that over, I think it'll become Niven again (not Piper or Viper for similar reason I suspect Theory lost his first name). But I am promising everyone that Theory will not suffer a single bit, and the only people that will complain will be the people that always find a reason to complain. And that's why Vince doesn't listen to that part of the fanbase.


With the titles, my favorite set up for the brand split was always the single champion bouncing between brands. The product wasn't superb or better because of it, and I'll admit it's a purely personal preference. But I really liked HHH being on Raw and SD, then Hogan, then Bikertaker. I think Rock held it for such a short amount of time that his run didn't really matter for this discussion, and obviously Brock ended that era. It only lasted 6 months, but I felt it made the rest of the roster matter more. It's another IWC complaint that doesn't matter, but it's one I share with others, but the 2 world title scenario never sat right with me. I accepted it, and WWE made it work. But it truly feels silly to total the title reigns and compare them to 16 time Ric Flair, knowing that Cena/Edge/Orton/Roman was only the champ for half the company at a time.

But let's be honest here: Roman has been the champion of the whole company for a while. And if there is a logic to why Usos (and Roman/Paul from time to time) can show up on Raw, or the women in the tag division can show up on the other brands when feuding with the champs, then they can make this work easily.

That being said, it's a slippery slope, and I sense the brand split will be over within a year or two.


It might just be the post-WM honeymoon phase, but main roster WWE is promoting matches week or weeks in advance on a regular basis. Last week, we knew there would be a Raw tag title match, Rey vs Veer, and the women's tag title match. Obviously there were changes to that, but at the end of this week's Raw they rebooked the women, along with Theory vs Balor for the US title, and we know the double wedding thing will happen. None of these matches/segments are true draws, but it's still a healthy habit to get into as you'll be able to announce the big event matches in advance to. For example, if Roman is bouncing from brand to brand, I hope we get each brand developing their own Home contender. If next Monday we get told that Raw gets the first shot at the the title/Roman, and they are booking a fatal 4 way between Rollins, Owens, Cody and Lashley to see who gets the shot at Backlash (I know Cody vs Seth is already booked, just go with it), but it won't be until the next week, there will be anticipation. It won't be monumental, but with the way NXT and SD discuss happenings on Raw, the reminders of a big match next Monday will likely boost ratings.

On that topic, I'll be interested to see how the 9:00 ratings are from last night. Telling the fans when the Cody vs Miz match would happen is a smart move, and I'm sure Vince/Khan will be looking for whether Cody is making a big enough difference or not.

[T.O.]

Sheamus
Batista
The Rock
Bayley
You say Mick Foley, I counter with Mankind
Asuka
Sting
Vader
Kane
Christian

[Team Farrell]

That being said, with people with names like Ricochet, Big E, Edge, The Miz, Riddle, Ivar, Mace, Shanky... Theory will be fine. This doesn't mean I'm a fan of it, but it's in no way going to hurt him, and complaining about it is beyond useless.

Here's the problem, though:

Guys like Ricochet or Big E, their names make sense. They are nicknames. Athletes get nicknames all the time. E is short for Ettore, I can see that and I can buy in to it. Even The Miz is a nickname for Mike Mizanin. Cody called him Mike on Raw and Maryse regularly does when she's on TV.

Even Shanky, while a little odd sounding to an English speaker, is an actual Indian name.

But taking Hansen and Rowe and making them Eirk and Ivar has turned them from the bad ass, hard hitting monsters they were in New Japan and NXT who could have been a money drawing tag team, and made them a joke tag team that jobs out to Omos two-on-one. That's not the only reason they became that, but the names don't help. As soon as Dio Maddin put on eyeliner and a mask and became Mace, his career was DOA. Dominik Dijakovic was a real guy that you could get behind and could see get a big push; T-Bar is a joke.

Dio Madden might be a talent the level that Mace is as high as he could have gotten. But Dijakovic could have been a star, and now he's worknig with Shelton on Main Event.

There are always going to be exceptions. Edge came in with a silly name but as part of a dark and brooding group where you kind of bought it as a name they'd give him within the group. And then he got over enough you saw past it.

"Theory" is not over enough for them to see past it, isn't starting from scratch like Edge was, and with a name that awful, I'm not sure he'll ever get there. He has all the tools, but someone who's never seen him completely cold seeing him introduced as "Theory", there's an immediate hurdle to overcome.