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  • Fresh feuds do not change the fact that many of the players involved have already feuded a few times over the years.

    I am not saying that E vs Rollins isn't fresh, but it's jut Rollins in the main event once again.

    I just miss the times when the WWF/E built up new challengers through the midcard, then they fought their way into the main event.

    I mean look at the biggest names in the Wrestling world not named Hogan and Flair. Rock and Austin both were built up through the IC title and in some ways over shadowed the WWE title. Then look to Angle, Jericho, Hart, HBK, HHH, Hall, Nash, Macho, Edge, Cena, Orton (the quick WHC title run not withstanding) Eddie, etc all were sufficiently built up through the midcard where they had significant feuds, well before the main event.

    We all want new guy to be in the main event right away, but the WWE just released a lot of talent where they could have used that talent to make more matches. I am not a fan of NXT for one reason. NXT is the developmental place on TV. Take those top guys that are ready to wrestle regularly and put them on either RAW or SD and build them up on the main roster in the way that Rock and Austin etc all were. That makes a large roster with lots of matches and lots of potential to see what sticks to the wall. Why keep them in NXT and get over, and then immediately change what made them a star in NXT? If Vince wants what he wants, then put those guys on RAW or SD and develop them there. In many ways NXT hinders talent in the WWE as Vince takes what worked and then immediately changes that.

    Yes in the past 1.5 years we have newer main event guys, but the talent is the same and not fresh to me.
    Powder
    Senior Member
    Last edited by Powder; 11-09-2021, 12:11 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Powder View Post
      Big E vs Rollins or Owens or Lashley or Edge
      Roman vs Drew or Kofi? or Woods? or Hardy? or Sheamus?
      All those combinations are new.

      And you're forgetting a bunch of people who are new. Damian Priest, Omos, Otis (as hinted last night), Montez Ford, Austin Theory, and Riddle are all sniffing a main event push. That's just Raw.

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      • Originally posted by Powder View Post
        I mean look at the biggest names in the Wrestling world not named Hogan and Flair. Rock and Austin both were built up through the IC title and in some ways over shadowed the WWE title. Then look to Angle, Jericho, Hart, HBK, HHH, Hall, Nash, Macho, Edge, Cena, Orton (the quick WHC title run not withstanding) Eddie, etc all were sufficiently built up through the midcard where they had significant feuds, well before the main event.
        In which ways did Big E, Rollins, Owens, Lashley, Drew, Kofi, or Woods not get built up through the midcard? Even Reigns - tag runs and The Shield before getting into the title picture. I know that doesn't fit the narrative because people seem to want to believe Reigns was instantly overpushed to the title picture, but he spent two years in The Shield in and out of being tag champion before getting to the main event. Angle took a year. Is that not comparable in terms of the speed of their rise?

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        • Word is they're finally gonna pull the trigger on the Mysterio father vs son feud. If this happens is there a better angle they could do than Rey passing the torch to Dominick in a retirement match at WrestleMania?

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          • I'll accept a Rey vs Dominick feud if it's Dominick turning on Rey and starting to do the three amigos and frog splash.

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            • Eddie would be looking up with a smile on his face.

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              • *Randy Orton has entered the chat*

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                • So the WWE just released the rest of the Hit Row stable?!?!?!?


                  They just drafted them to Smackdown and were a relatively high draft pick. So why in the hell did they release them?

                  I do not know what is going on with the WWE, but they must be losing money hand over fist.....


                  Also, to make a parallel, and many of you know, I am a teacher, and when budget cuts 'need' to be made, it is funny how they always cut the teachers first (in WWE the on air talent) before the redundant and overpriced upper management, i.e. an Assistant Superintendent or Upper ranking position. Cutting a few of those people, where one of their salary's is equivalent to anywhere from 1-3 new, younger teachers (on air talent). It makes me shake my head. The top save themselves and cut the people who need the jobs.

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                  • You have absolutely no idea what's going on. You're purely speculating, and my guess is you don't know how the executives in education make their decisions either.

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                    • I do know how the executives in education make decisions. I have had friends and family members in those positions. It all comes down to the all mighty dollar. It is 'easy' to get rid of the young teachers, than get rid of an exec. Education is just like any other business. Fire the grunts, keep the execs when cuts need to be made.

                      If one person makes $250,000 a year, and 3 newer teachers collectively make that...who is more important to the job? The teacher. Period. The one on the front line doing the dirty work. The upper administration, while they do have important jobs, can have their job dispersed among others, without hurting a mass of people. Losing teachers, makes larger class sizes, making less one on one connections with students. More responsibility and less time for students, leading to poorer education all around.

                      I will admit that I do not have any true idea about the WWE, but I was simply making a parallel. I would bet that if you got rid of a guy like Kevin Dunn, for instance, you could easily keep some of the newer/younger/less expensive on air talent.

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                      • WWE just reported record profits. If that's not true and they're lying to the SEC, everyone in a position of power in the company is facing prison time. They aren't losing money. They also cut their CFO recently, thought that might have been a clash of personalities issue, so not even executives are safe.

                        There's some sort of cost-benefit analysis going into these cuts. My guess is that they're looking at these talent, regardless of what plans they might have with them, and saying "will our show be negatively impacted without them?" Jim Cornette likes to use the phrase "if this person weren't on the show, would the fans set the seats on fire?"

                        There might have been plans for these talents creatively, but unless those plans were to main event Survivor Series next week, plans in pro wrestling have been changing on a dime when necessary for 40 years.

                        I still don't believe that this year's layoffs are what others do. I don't think this suddenly means that there's no job security in WWE anymore, and nobody is safe and anybody can be cut at any time. They're contracting the size of their roster because plans have changed.

                        They were obviously going for a big expansion of some sort (multiple global NXT brands, turning NXT itself into a brand and establishing a new developmental show, something) in 2018-2019 and signed up talent accordingly. Then the pandemic hit, and they've completely reevaluated their strategic plans. Prior to '18/'19, they had about 150 total wrestlers signed. Now even with the releases, their developmental system alone is 170 or so!

                        With this latest round of releases, it puts them at 30-something on Smackdown, 40-something on Raw and a half dozen or so "free agents". That's a pretty manageable number to use on TV and just about everyone left on the roster is someone who's regularly featured.

                        They've still got almost 250 talents signed. It won't surprise me to see them cut another 50 between NXT, the two main brands and a pretty overloaded NXTUK considering the amount of content it can produce. 200-ish will probably be where they settle, and I don't think they'll go back to that 300+ level anymore.

                        They signed talent, likely for a reason, and then the business model changed. It sucks for the human beings involved, but sometimes that's how it works. "Budget cuts" are just an easy excuse to give the talent. It's not a lie -- they did a cost/benefit and their benefit didn't outweigh their coast -- but it's also not the whole truth. But to me "budget cuts" or "we don't think you're going to be a big money drawing star" is six of one, or half dozen of another.

                        To go back to the teacher comparison, it would be like having a school where you hired teachers expecting 2000 students, and things were re-zoned and there are only going to be 1500 students. You probably don't need three gym teachers anymore.
                        Team Farrell
                        Super Moderator
                        Last edited by Team Farrell; 11-19-2021, 01:18 PM.
                        https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
                        My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

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                        • Originally posted by Powder View Post
                          I do know how the executives in education make decisions. I have had friends and family members in those positions. It all comes down to the all mighty dollar.
                          You're still missing the point. Yes, that's the cheaper option. But you're not considering how hard it is to replace executive roles, for example. There is still much more to it than what you're saying, and you should know better than to claim otherwise.

                          Concerning WWE, there's definitely an internal issue to address. For them to hype up Hit Row as much as they did, only to cut them down, something is wrong. I don't care what the real reason is, it's something that could have been prevented. If they had attitudes, then NXT isn't grooming them right (which may have been fixed by the recent NXT 2.0 change, but there's no way to know). If they weren't ready for main roster with their work, then they shouldn't have been drafted yet. If it's purely cost, then I really think there are roster members with much less potential that should have been cut first.

                          Either way, it's a shame in the short term, but better for everyone long term. Hit Row as a unit would be hot to hire anywhere, so they'll be fine. It might not be for the same money, but they'll be comfortable. And in the end, WWE's job isn't to make sure wrestlers are comfortable if they aren't going to be used.


                          One side effect that I worry about is that WWE might run into issues hiring from the indys now. I don't think it'll be impossible, but it seems like someone like Jordynne Grace would prefer not to sign with WWE (though money could change that as well). Next time they do want to offer a free agent a spot, they might be turned down. Eventually they will loose all that good will that might still exist, and there's no denying AEW certainly has a lot of goodwill right now (they'll need to make cuts sooner rather than later). WWE will always be the top promotion, and obviously they'll still groom people into good spots. But without as much available outside talent, they are risking their future options.

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                          • Charlotte vs Becky from Survivor Series might just be the best WWE singles match I've seen this year. Anybody got any other contenders? Everything fit the story they're telling and was incredibly smooth.

                            I just wish Charlotte would stop doing the top rope moonsault to the floor. It always looks ropey and she tags so many people with her arm while landing square on her feet. I don't know if that's because the move itself is hard to take or hard to land, but either way it looks super weak.

                            McAfee is a really great colour commentator. I loved the Graves/Cole/McAfee trio as a team.
                            Oliver
                            Senior Member
                            Last edited by Oliver; 11-22-2021, 06:15 AM.

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                            • Originally posted by PEN15v2 View Post
                              Concerning WWE, there's definitely an internal issue to address. For them to hype up Hit Row as much as they did, only to cut them down, something is wrong. I don't care what the real reason is, it's something that could have been prevented.
                              I really think that the issue is that the person doing the cutting either isn't involved with or doesn't care much about what creative is doing.

                              That's not to say it's Nick Khan or anyone else making those talent decision. But that those decisions are being made several steps removed from the creative process. They should be made in tandem, but for some reason someone is looking at factors outside of creative or what's on TV.

                              Originally posted by Oliver View Post
                              Charlotte vs Becky from Survivor Series might just be the best WWE singles match I've seen this year. Anybody got any other contenders? Everything fit the story they're telling and was incredibly smooth.
                              I find it really hard to disagree with that. It was great! It started stiff with hair pulling like a fight, and stayed stiff the whole time as they transitioned in to a wrestling match. Charlotte Flair might be the best womens wrestler of all time, and Backy is one of the top characters I've ever seen.
                              https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
                              My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

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                              • This Liv push just isn't right. While many WWE pushes can feel manufactured, at least there's a semblance of a reason for it (ex: Reigns 2014-2020).

                                Liv hasn't had the swell of support that Daniel Bryan or Becky Lynch had. She's been a midcarder at best, and no one clamored for more. She was the weakest link of the Riott Squad, while the others were released. She isn't unattractive, but she's not attractive enough to warrant being pushed over many others. She doesn't have size, charisma, ability, a marketable look... I don't get it.

                                Thankfully, WWE played it right tonight by having her lose. No matter how sloppy the match was, there's more desire from the fanbase to see her win the big one now than there was before or during the match. If they keep the story going, this could work itself out. But this can backfire badly if she doesn't deliver something substantial for the fans to care about.

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