NXT

[Team Farrell]

Woah there, ain't nobody picking on Baszler without backing that stuff up here Coach, she's my favourite! What don't you like about her?

She's just not a great pro wrestler. She can grapple and do spots, but basic fundamental stuff isn't up to snuff. When she throws a strike that she knows she's going to miss (because someone is going to duck or move from it) she throws it about as weakly as possible, sometimes doesn't even bother following through with it and it seems like an afterthought so that she can move on to the next spot. Sometimes her spacing in the ring is a little weird and requires her to take stutter steps. She takes a buckle about as dainty as I've seen even the lowest level green indy people do it. There's other stuff I see blatantly in a lot of her matches. She also can't cut a promo to save her life -- unless they do the "candid" backstage ones where someone with a camera just walks up to her, she has so little conviction that she sounds like she's either in her high school play or saying what she thinks a pro wrestler is supposed to say.

I'm not sure if they aren't teaching or critiquing that shit at the PC. Maybe they're just happy if you go out and hit all your spots, but it's the kind of stuff that makes a wrestler, especially one on TV, look really unpolished.

Her match at Takeover was the best I've seen of her with the fewest of those little frustrating issues, likely because she spent the majority of it on offense, but they were still there. Sometimes I get the feeling that she's trying to be the female Brock, without the really solid foundation as a pro wrestler that Brock had before he became what he is today.

I just don't get people calling her this incredible wrestler or saying that she should get called up. Unpopular opinion: Carmella is a better professional wrestler than Baszler. She makes all her shit count whether it's going to connect or not, takes buckles like a champ, generally knows her ring positioning (although admittedly sometimes still has hiccups), bumps really well and is fairly crisp in her movements, and has confidence on the mic. She might not be the grappler that Baszler is, but one looks like a polished professional wrestler, the other does not.

[LK3185]

Not saying they're not trying to clean up issues at the PC and I don't look at the technical aspects that closely but to me, Baszler is doing what they want. If she wasn't, she wouldn't be champ for this long. They've shown with others too that they're not afraid to put green workers on tv if it serves a purpose.

I think when they have a blank slate, they try to teach people that right way. With others, its like do your thing. Don't hurt anyone.

[Oliver]

Maybe my reasons for liking her are more character based. Like, with that all pointed out I can see where it's coming from when I watch her matches back, but I don't find it hurting the matches for me.

Apparently Shane Strickland, Trevor Lee, and ACH are all 'all but signed' now. Reportedly there's interest in Silas Young too, which...I mean at 39 and not having seen him be that good at any point in time I'm not really sure why.

[XanMan]

It isn't Wargames if you can win by pinfall. That is one tradition they *should have* kept. And Bazzler is awesome! If I still watched nXt, she would be one of my favorites.

[Degenerate]

I finally finished watching Takeover and I really enjoyed it entirely. The women's match was solid and is setting up for some good stuff to come. Gargano vs. Black was really good too, and it's probably the first Aleister Black match that has me sold on Black being a major player on the main roster. For some reason I just never "got" him like others seem to be. Ciampa and Dream was also enjoyable. And the WarGames match was fun to watch. I thought everyone did equally awesome in that match - everyone had a role to play in the story and it was pulled off well. Really fun stuff.

As for Shayna Baszler, I saw her at a Stardom show about two years ago - a few months before the first Mae Young Classic - and I was immediately drawn to her. She was definitely unpolished compared to some of the other women in that match, particularly Kairi Sane, but she brought a realism that was really awesome to see. I feel she's still in that same boat, although quite improved from a character perspective. I'm pretty interested to see how far she can continue to go.

[mizfan]

I quite like Shayna, though I can sort of see where Coach is coming from. I've learned that, while I love good fundamentals, I seem to be able to look past someone who is shaky in that area if they appeal to me in other ways.

Apparently Shane Strickland, Trevor Lee, and ACH are all 'all but signed' now. Reportedly there's interest in Silas Young too, which...I mean at 39 and not having seen him be that good at any point in time I'm not really sure why.

I figure WWE is willing to sign anyone with any significance at this point. I enjoy the Silas Young character and if he keeps his shtick he'll do fine in NXT. Don't see a big future for him but someone has to job to the top guys.

I think Strickland has potential to do really well in NXT and maybe even on the main roster down the line. Also confirms why he left LU, I figured as much. Big fan of Trevor Lee but hard to imagine they'll know what to do with him. ACH feels destined to be a 205 Live mainstay. Actually that might be the best place for Trevor Lee too, though I think he could possibly break out further with time and good handling.

[Team Farrell]

I figure WWE is willing to sign anyone with any significance at this point. I enjoy the Silas Young character and if he keeps his shtick he'll do fine in NXT. Don't see a big future for him but someone has to job to the top guys.

He's the man and has a brilliant sense of psychology. You're probably right. I could see him being a gatekeeper type guy, maybe getting a short run on the main roster before transitioning back to NXT in a player/coach role.

Bring him in with a few big wins over top level guys who don't have belts at the time -- the Velveteen Dreams, Aleister Blacks and ECIII's of the world -- to establish him as someone who's legit and can beat top guys, and then let him start helping guys advance.

NXT's missing someone in that role, in my opinion, because everyone is someone on the rise. So you don't have a real strong upper midcard to stop off in for a minute so you can take a Keith Lee from jobber matches to main events without that really jarring jump. It kind of puts everyone on the same level.

Ohno is sort of in that role, but was never given the big initial push to establish that he's the same caliber as the top guys, so when Matt Riddle beats him there was no doubt in my mind and it does nothing for Riddle.

[Mr Chop]

So with Gargano getting a short at the North American title, are we about to see The Two Man Power Trip: NXT? I flipping hope so!

[Powder]

I have said repeatedly that I do not watch NXT, but I know it is a really good program, well writte, good characters, booked correctly, etc.,but it reminds me of something.

and I’d like to think that maybe this company will be better after Vince McMahon is dead, but the fact is it’s gonna get taken over by his idiotic daughter and his doofus son-in-law and the rest of his stupid family.

Yup, that is a quote from CM Punk's infamous pipebomb promo. What I find is interesting is that Punk, I believe, was being truthful in that statement, but oh how was he wrong. The "doofus son-in-law" is in charge of NXT and is making a really good product. So when the time comes for HHH to take over the WWE full time, I think we will all actually get a better all around product.

I know that the WWE is still Vince's baby, but it is time for him to step aside and allow HHH to make those decisions that need to be made.

[Team Farrell]

NXT is generally a good product, while I have issues with the Takeover events, but the problem that HHH is going to have to face when/if he takes over the creative end of the company fully is that NXT doesn't make money. He can book these Takeovers that get rave reviews, and they're filling major venues four times a month, but for all the talent that they have a lot of their house shows are in front of a few hundred people.

Now, NXT as a division probably isn't set up to be wildly profitable because Vince McMahon sees the value in financing a developmental system with the hopes that those stars will pay dividends on the main roster. But who has? Who from NXT is a major star on the main roster right now? Braun spent all of a cup of coffee there, AJ bypassed it entirely, Samoa Joe was there but they didn't exactly "develop" him as much as use him to bump NXT. You have maybe Almas and Drew as NXT success stories? Possibly Balor if you want to stretch it.

Triple H has been able to put together cards that are critically appealing. And why wouldn't they be? He's created a super indy. But can he take that and turn it into success on the main roster by making money? Hell, Triple H could well be next in a long line of NXT call-ups that just don't quite reach that level of success you'd assumed.

Add to the fact that Shane is back in the fold and while he might not be officially in a management role (yet) he definitely has his dad's ear, and it might be too soon to tell. Vince isn't going anywhere any time soon, but who's to say that when he does ride off into the sunset, he doesn't decide that handing the keys to the kingdom to someone with limited corporate experience and who isn't blood is a little too unnerving?

Shit, for all we know Vince could execute a stock buyback tomorrow and sell to Disney.

[Oliver]

Is it not fair to say that 2/3 of New Day are the best/most successful NXT graduates, alongside the women?

Plus, with someone like Braun, while he may not have been on NXT TV much - reportedly a Vince decision, as I recall - he was certainly a Performance Centre product which I would argue is as much a part of NXT as the TV product.. I'd be interested to see how successful someone like Gargano or Ciampa - who were half the performers they are now on the independent scene - get on on the main roster.

Mind you, I would also say that much of the success of NXT is down to it's format as much as it's performers. It obviously has the freedom of expression which perhaps the main roster lacks, but I would also say that the limited TV product helps it significantly. Plus there must be a strong credit given to the behind the scenes teams of writers and agents who underpin the show. Again, my memory might be wrong but as I recall the old NXT head writer got promoted to write Smackdown 18/24 months ago, and an argument could be made that there's been a significant uptick in quality on the Blue Brand since that.

So with Gargano getting a short at the North American title, are we about to see The Two Man Power Trip: NXT? I flipping hope so!

Sign me up, Chop!

[Team Farrell]

I wouldn't disagree that the women of NXT were the major success story of that brand. Though I might land on the side that the concept of the NXT Women's Division is more of a success than anything.

I say that because the idea that the women in NXT were putting on long, entertaining matches that held up to a lot of what the guys were doing is what really prompted the fanbase to demand that the main roster women be given more.

However, I'm not sure if the women there, specifically, were lightning in a bottle or if it was just the concept. I say that, because there was a time where the WWE roster had athletically talented girls like Eve Torres, Gail Kim, Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, Natalya, Layla and Michelle McCool on the roster at the same time five or six years before the original "Divas Revolution" who probably could have been putting on matches that were as good as a lot of what we get today, but weren't given the TV time or pushed by management and the audience to work as physically as what we get now.

[Oliver]

That's actually completely reasonable - I'd have loved to see someone like Kim or McCool have time in the ring like these women have had.

So, Sam Shaw is in the new class of NXT trainees...

More interestingly, 3.0 have signed!

[Oliver]

Thoughts on Takeover, then?

Found it all very enjoyable but not quite a top tier Takeover. Which, admittedly, is like saying this caviar isn't the best caviar ever, so still not bad.

Felt like the women's match and Riddle/Oh no underwhelmed, but the other three bouts held that card together

Interested why they take Gargano/Ciampa now. I was half expecting a 'this is my moment' moment from Gargano on Ciampa

[LifeLostInRewind]

I am really liking where this Gargano/Ciampa thing is going. Would be lit if it resulted in a title vs title match during Mania weekend's Takeover.