NXT

[PEN15v2]

It's still a name no one would want to use.

[Team Farrell]

It's so funny. Walter, when you pronounce the W as a V, the way it would be pronounced in Germany sounds regal and really catches your attention. It sounds like a willain in a Bond movie. Any time I heard Nigel say it on NXTUK it sounded bad ass.

Gunther sounds to me like a bumbling comedic butler. But, I can see Vince: "Walter, who the hell is Walter? What kind of name is that? Who's going to be scared of Walter? It's just one first name. Let's go with something really German like Gunther Stark."

And then six months later "Gunther Stark? Who's idea was that!? It's too long. Just go with Gunther. Yeah. One name. Much easier. You're a genius McMahon."

Truthfully though, being a North American meat head, I audibly laughed when I first heard tell of this killer in Europe whose name was Walter. I'd have done the same at Gunther or Heinrich or Karl or any other of Hans' gang. I'd imagine the average guy in Minnesota who doesn't follow indy wrestling would do the same.

They should have called him Adolf Wolfenstein.

[PEN15v2]

In the end, it won't matter. As long as it's not "Todd" or "Rick" (unless the last name is Sanchez) the name has rarely mattered. This isn't to say Doudrop is a great name, but it's obvious that it hasn't hindered her career so far.

[Powder]

Or Rick Boogs. Yes Rick is “short” for Eric, and Boogs is a nickname for his last name of Bugenhagen, but still….Rick Boogs is a Bads wrestling name.

And regards to Doudrop, the WWE was very meta on Monday, where Becky was poking fun at her name, saying that could anyone really see Doudrop as RWC?

[Oliver]

Rick Boogs, let's be honest here, isn't a million miles away from Rick Rude. And Rick Rude is a flipping great ring name. Boogs is a little bit too close to Boogers, and if someone hasn't yet made that joke on WWE TV I'm sure it's only six months away.

Gunther makes me think of the little fat German exchange kid in The Simpsons.

[PEN15v2]

Rick Boogs is a great name. It's fun to say, he gets a catchy intro to use it for, and it can be modified easily. It's obviously not a real name, so he can switch it to Bugenhagan at the drop of a hat. But if I can be honest, that name is worse.


I'm noticing something in NXT. Most people are getting characters and personality. But those that aren't, like Dante Chen, Edris Enofe, Malik Blade, Yulisa Leon, Valentina Feroz, Draco Anthony (if he actually debuts) all seem to be for diversity reasons. I hope that's not the case, but it feels like they are debuting Rocky Maivia again: generic babyface bluechipper. But in these cases, it's non-white ethnicity they have in common. Well, I guess Von Wagner is the combo breaker there.

But maybe that's a good thing, because Lash Legend, Ikamen Jiro, Wendy Choo... not the best gimmicks in my opinion.

[Powder]

I look at the names given to WWE wrestlers this way….Can I see wrestler x, with his/her given name, being the flag bearer for the company? Can I see that wrestler as WWE/Universal/RWC/SDWC going to make the rounds on the talk shows, red carpets, etc?

A woman named Doudrop, absolutely not, but Piper Niven, yes.

Rick Boogs, no way. But Rick Bugenhagen, yes. Bugenhagen, as it is the man’s given name, sure.

Now I know that not every one, hell, most wrestlers will not be the Top Title Holder, but that is everyone’s ultimate goal, and a bad name can and does hinder that goal. I do not believe that anyone who gets into pro-wrestling as a career choice says to themselves: "I just want to make it to the WWE. I just want to earn a paycheck." Why would you want to spend countless nights on the road, making shit money, sleeping in your car at times, eating next to nothing, and struggling just to find a gig if the endgoal is not to make it as a major promotion's top champion?

If so, there are much easier ways too do so. Again, I understand that most will be midcarders for life, or enhancement talent, but everyone of those, when they decided to get into wrestling and devote their life to it, dreamt of being the top title holder. Again, a bad name can and will hinder that.

To make a parallel to real sports, everyone wants to win a championship, most don’t, but no one gets into sports saying, I just want to play. That is little league.

[PEN15v2]

Is Daniel Bryan a name that screams flag bearer? John Cena? Diesel? Shawn Michaels? Seth Rollins? "The Miz"? These names only seem to fit because they eventually got to that point. But if John Cena had the career of Barry Horowitz, you'd never think his name sounded like a superstar.

I'm not saying those are bad names, but they aren't on the level of "The Rock", or Brock Lesnar, or Roman Reigns. You don't need to have a crazy scene stealing name to be a flag bearer. And I beg to differ about Rick Boogs not being a flag bearer name. You seem to think that these people will never ever escape the name. But Boogs can have a heel turn tomorrow and say he's Eric Bugenhagen from now on, and he wouldn't suddenly sound like a main event star. Doudrop can shed the name and become Viper again, or Piper Niven at any time.

If everyone had the mindset of being the flag bearer at all times, you'd have a really boring show. No one would want to lose, or have fun. For every Hulk Hogan, you need a Junkyard Dog. For every Bret Hart, you need a Doink. For every Steve Austin, you need a Dude Love/Mankind/Cactus Jack. None of the names are failures. They are all successful for a variety of reasons. But if Rick Boogs said his name was anything like Dude Love, he'd be laughed out the arena in 2022. Yet, Foley made that gimmick work as face and heel into main event spots. People can evolve, and that includes their names. Foley being a great example. Batista was Deacon Dave Bautista at one point. Cowboy Bret Hart became the Hitman.

All you need to judge is how they are on TV. And Doudrop and Boogs are using their names, as limiting as they may be, and are doing pretty damn well.


Back to NXT, do you think we'll see more cross over like we've seen recently with AJ Styles and Riddle? I would hope so. And to use the opportunity to send people down to NXT from time to time and stay off Raw or SD. It seems this is what Kevin Owens was supposed to do at some point. I think it's a great way to revive people, while lending credibility to an obviously green roster. Grayson Waller may not become a star, but he's looked pretty damn good since attacking Gargano, and then feuding with AJ and LA Knight. So when someone loses a main roster feud, they can go to NXT for a couple of months, maybe be completely repackaged if necessary, and then come back to Mondays or Fridays. It seems like a healthy move overall.

[Powder]

Is Daniel Bryan a name that screams flag bearer? John Cena? Diesel? Shawn Michaels? Seth Rollins? "The Miz"? These names only seem to fit because they eventually got to that point. But if John Cena had the career of Barry Horowitz, you'd never think his name sounded like a superstar.

I'm not saying those are bad names, but they aren't on the level of "The Rock", or Brock Lesnar, or Roman Reigns. You don't need to have a crazy scene stealing name to be a flag bearer. And I beg to differ about Rick Boogs not being a flag bearer name. You seem to think that these people will never ever escape the name. But Boogs can have a heel turn tomorrow and say he's Eric Bugenhagen from now on, and he wouldn't suddenly sound like a main event star. Doudrop can shed the name and become Viper again, or Piper Niven at any time.

If everyone had the mindset of being the flag bearer at all times, you'd have a really boring show. No one would want to lose, or have fun. For every Hulk Hogan, you need a Junkyard Dog. For every Bret Hart, you need a Doink. For every Steve Austin, you need a Dude Love/Mankind/Cactus Jack. None of the names are failures. They are all successful for a variety of reasons. But if Rick Boogs said his name was anything like Dude Love, he'd be laughed out the arena in 2022. Yet, Foley made that gimmick work as face and heel into main event spots. People can evolve, and that includes their names. Foley being a great example. Batista was Deacon Dave Bautista at one point. Cowboy Bret Hart became the Hitman.

All you need to judge is how they are on TV. And Doudrop and Boogs are using their names, as limiting as they may be, and are doing pretty damn well.

All of the names from the first paragraph became flag bearers yes, but their names were not hindering them to begin with. They were not named something stupid like Doudrop.

Yes Boogs or Doudrop can change their names, but that just reinforces my point. They will need to change their names in order to move up the corporate and wrestling ladders.

Also, I 100% completely agree that wrestling needs comedy acts, midcarders, and JYD's and Doinks, but can you say that they did NOT dream or want to become top champion regardless of where they ended up?

[PEN15v2]

Since my last reply got flagged for spam and is waiting for moderation, I'll copy and paste it.

I don't give a flying fuck what they dream to be. My role as viewer is not to ensure the actors are living their dream. I'm sure Danny Devito wishes he could win an Oscar as a leading man in a romantic movie, but it's never going to happen. Every actor wants to be the one to steal the show from the Tom Cruises and Julia Roberts of the world, but some end up being Steve Buscemi. There's no doubt which of those 3 I enjoy watching most and who I think is the most talented, but I also know he's not the one meant to be in the lead of a movie.

Rick Boogs and Doudrop don't have names that hinder them. They have characters to get them noticed. We've had these same arguments before, but about gimmicks, I think concentrating on Austin Theory and Matt Riddle's goofiness. There's no denying they have evolved over the course of their careers, and are becoming bigger stars than they once were. Sure, Riddle being a pure ass kicker would be great. But he's undersized. If everyone came to Raw with characters Charlotte or Lashley or Brock, it just wouldn't work. So the point remains the same: Rappin John Cena was never going to be the face of the company, but it was a great gimmick to lead him there. Once he got to the top, he evolved. Rocky Maivia becoming The Rock. Stunning Steve becoming Stone Cold. In a reference to Foley, 1996 Mankind wasn't going to be a flag bearer, but he got to evolve into Cactus Jack and Dude Love, and dress shirt wearing Mankind, and found a great balance between having fun and being the top champ or title challenger. Riddle breaking up with Randy, no matter who turns on the other, will make Riddle bigger than he is today because it'll be an emotional story. He'll shed a bit or maybe all of the goofiness, and then he could definitely be the character you wished he could be from the start. But had he debuted as former MMA star Matt Riddle, I think he'd be released by now.

Since this is the NXT thread, I'll make a more relevant comparison. Dexter Lumis is a great character. Heel or face, he's super over. But, is he going to be the face of the brand as he is? No. He could win the NXT title (though his record makes it seem unlikely), but he wouldn't be the heel or face of the brand since his gimmick is silent. He would need to evolve and talk much more than "I do" at a wedding segment. But would you say he isn't doing a great job getting over with what he's currently doing?

If everyone came out trying to be Bron Breakker, it would be so fucking boring. Bron is going to be a star, and I get why he's got such a serious character so quickly. It's a lot like Roman Reigns was in his short time in NXT. But Bron needs to have surroundings like Cameron Grimes, Dexter Lumis, Joe Gacy, and Boa so that when Gunther or LA Knight come knocking on his door for a title shot, it'll mean much more.


Here's a better comparison - who is more entertaining: New Day Big E (pick any time frame of this run) or NXT Champ Big E Langston. He started as a serious ass kicker. And it worked. But once he got to the main roster, it was harder for him to stand out. So, while reduced to a midcard role, he become more goofy, and got over until he won the IC title in 2020, and then the WWE title in 2021. His championship run wasn't great, but he's still higher up the ladder than he was before Money in the Bank. And he has evolved his character a bit, as he's still goofy, while also being a physical threat who could challenge Brock, Bobby or even Roman at WrestleMania, and it would belong on the card.


Boogs and Doudrop are just fine.

[Oliver]

I want to see a one on one Brock vs Big E match so, so badly. Like, I can definitely see a world where Big E wins the Rumble and goes on to Mania to face Brock.

Is the current MSK storyline essentially 'they went and got high with Riddle and are now more confident'?

You know what, I think WWE/NXT has really caught onto something with Bron Breakker. I wouldn't have said it when he first got his shots, I thought he was a bit behind where someone who tops the brand should be, but either he's really progressed since then or the way they're presenting him has started to work for him really well. I can see him being a proper, actual breakout star in the next 2-3 years.

[Powder]

Not sure why, but Bron Breakker was booed by the crowd last night. The bulk of the crowd was in support for Escobar.

I do not watch NXT weekly. Any one know the reasoning?

Is this similar to the "Roman Reigns hate" from a few years ago? Where the crowd is rebelling against a push of who the WWE is pushing as it's next top star?

[The Cook]

I haven't watched last night's yet but I've seen that it was the anniversary of Eddie's title win over Lesnar and Breakker did some sort of tribute so maybe they booed that part, especially as it was against someone more in the Eddie mold.

[Oliver]

Bron's an odd one - I neither feel like he's over as a face or over as a heel. He just kind of...is. I'm not completely sure the crowd especially cares one way or the other.

[PEN15v2]

It was a case of longtime fans feeling Santos has been underutilized for a while and deserved the win. I see the point, but it wouldn't have been the right move so early into Bron's run.

Great show. Very different styles of matches, some good storybuilding, and lots of fun. This is the type of show AEW puts out every week and has been what has grabbed the attention of the IWC. For extreme developmental to pull it off with a wrestling style I prefer, I am pretty impressed.



NXT Level Up, with Quinn McKay onboard and Nigel McGuinness behind the booth... I like the sounds of that. I haven't watched 205 live since maybe Enzo was champ, but it doesn't sound like a major revamp of what they've been doing lately. But by putting the title of Level Up on it, it's a lot more clear in terms of the intention of the show. I'll give it a watch this weekend.