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  • Originally posted by Oliver View Post
    Grimes' music video has me absolutely on the Grimes Train. The 'to the moon' bits they cut in were absolute genius. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it without overanalysing it.

    I wish they'd done Storm vs Shirai as a singles match, and think that's coming down the line after how it ended. The thing is, I think both Shirai vs Storm and Shirai vs Martinez could be perfect singles matches, and I'm not sure the sum of the parts actually added up to more in the triple threat. That said, I think the show as a whole really benefited from having a short(er) match on it, and maybe it's just a shame it was the triple threat as opposed to Gargano vs Kushida.

    I never want to see a double stomp on a suspended opponent in a corner again, mind. It gave me horrible flash backs to the ADR ones where it took him about two minutes to set himself while the opponent just held themselves in there doing nothing. I think it can work, I think there's probably a quicker way to get there than Shirai did, but I've not seen one look 'natural'

    Balor vs Dunne was absolutely phenomenal. I'm not sure what they've done to Finn in the last year, but this is the best in ring run I've ever seen him have. I don't think it was quite as good for me as the first O'Reilly match, but it was at least the level of their second one. Interesting post-match stuff too which sets up a few angles to go with coming out of the show.
    The double stomp on a suspended opponent has always been a contrived spot. It would *possibly be better if Wrestler A tied up Wrestler B in the Tree of Woe and started doing some AmDrag kicks to the gut, and then, after noticing Wrestler B trying to pull him/herself up to get free, quickly went outside and did a springboard back in and hit the double stomp. It would take care of the suspended opponent having to hold themselves in place for so long while the one doing the move was trying to balance on the top rope. It would just be a quick 3 second spot that could almost look natural, in my opinion.

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    • Elsewhere, I complained about the choreography of those 2 matches , and my opinion was very unpopular. I get why promotions aim to please these fans that like that style , but I truly believe it'll be too the detriment of long term prosperity of the business.

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      • What ever do you mean? A combined 25 false finishes, with 24 finishing moves per match?

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        • Originally posted by meandi View Post
          The double stomp on a suspended opponent has always been a contrived spot. It would *possibly be better if Wrestler A tied up Wrestler B in the Tree of Woe and started doing some AmDrag kicks to the gut, and then, after noticing Wrestler B trying to pull him/herself up to get free, quickly went outside and did a springboard back in and hit the double stomp. It would take care of the suspended opponent having to hold themselves in place for so long while the one doing the move was trying to balance on the top rope. It would just be a quick 3 second spot that could almost look natural, in my opinion.
          It's a little odd. I think what would help in a lot of cases would be if the person tied up could be actively trying to get free, or at the very least kind of flailing their arms a little as though they're trying to do something.

          Originally posted by PEN15v2 View Post
          Elsewhere, I complained about the choreography of those 2 matches , and my opinion was very unpopular. I get why promotions aim to please these fans that like that style , but I truly believe it'll be too the detriment of long term prosperity of the business.
          A lot of the hardcore fans prefer that style. In my opinion, I think one match of that style on a card is plenty, and I also don't think that the wrestlers Gargano and Kushida are need too much choreography.

          MSK and GYV had a couple downright dangerous spots that I did not like. There is so much margin for error on a suicide dive Doomsday Device, especially doing it towards the announce table, that I can't believe they were actually allowed to do it.

          I'm not big on MSK. I know everyone loved the Rascals or whatever, but some of their spots are just unnecessarily silly. And at some point you're just making yourself look really weak when your opponent kicks out of things that should be killing them.

          I had the same thought with Gargano vs Kushida. If it had ended with the DDT on the stage and Gargano had rolled him in for the pin, that's a great finish with a little extra "oomph" for a Takeover event. Kushida doesn't lose totally "clean" because it took a DDT on the ramp to put him away, and you can leave him off TV for a week to sell a head/neck injury from taking that bump. But just the fact that he got back to his feet after the first one enough for Garano to hit a second in the ring makes Gargano look weak as hell, and also takes a little bit away from everyone else on the card who just eats a finishing move in the middle that Kushida got up from one on the ramp.

          These cards don't ramp up. They're going at 100 from the moment the show starts. It makes sense that in a main event after a hard fought 25 minutes, maybe Balor hits his Coup de Gras which should do it, but nails the 1916 just to make sure it's over. On the undercard you don't need that.
          Last edited by Team Farrell; 02-15-2021, 09:01 PM.
          https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
          My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

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          • I will say, I'm super surprised that Gargano/Kushida went so long. It didn't feel necessary.

            But then 'it didn't feel necessary' is basically Johnny Gargano's fucking tagline right now. 'A DDT on the ramp and another in the ring by Johnny Gargano. It didn't feel necessary' or 'a 45 minute match in an empty warehouse that ended with a cock shot by Johnny Gargano. It didn't feel necessary'.

            I'm fast approaching the point where I'm just going to skip his matches, to be honest. It was the match I least enjoyed on the card because it felt good but didn't feel like there was much of a struggle - like you say, it's choreographed. It's a little bit too clean, and those spots where they're 'grappling for position' or whatever on the mat just felt like one guy was lying there while the other slid over the top, and then repeat. It wasn't like Kushida tried to stop Gargano from repositioning or anything, or the other way around - it was just a load of hopping over the top of each other.

            It's not necessarily that I mind that, it's just that the whole 25 minute match thing...didn't feel necessary.

            I mean, for that matter I'm not sure either tag bout needed 17/18 minutes either. That was a 2.5 hour show top to bottom, and you could probably have done both tags in 10 and Gargano/Kushida in 15 to cut it down to a concise 2 hour show without losing any of the story of those matches and their quality.

            I used to think the short quasi-squash matches that they threw on the early Takeover cards were fairly pointless, but to be honest I find myself wanting to watch Karrion Kross throw a guy at the ground for two minutes and then pin them in the middle of a Takeover rather than another 15-20 minute 'mini-epic'.

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            • Wasn't that Owens' debut? He beat Juice Robinson in a fairly one aided match on Takeover before doing the angle at the end of the night?

              Why not have you new hyped signing LA Knight beat one of your PC people who's a good bumper in five minutes where he can get his moves over, maybe sell a tiny bit and win? Sure, maybe it takes away from the "every match on Takeover has to matter" feel of things, but it would also be a little bit of a shift in gears and immediately say that this guy you saw on the pre-show sign his contract and cut a promo is someone who can also win matches.
              https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
              My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

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              • I just watched a Scott Hall/Chris Jericho match from 1997, and this is mostly what Hall did. He bumped for Jericho, took the LionSault and let Jericho get a couple of roll-up near-falls, but you knew Hall was always going to win in the end. (Especially with it being 1997...) Hall hit his signature spots... the fall-away slam, a choke slam and Razor's Edge. It was a 7:30 segment which included Hall doing his normal "Hey, yo... we're taking a survey" pre-match promo. The match might've been four minutes tops, but you got to see what a young Jericho could potentially do later down the line while Hall (the main event guy) was still getting the win. We need more matches like this.

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                • Originally posted by Team Farrell View Post
                  Wasn't that Owens' debut? He beat Juice Robinson in a fairly one aided match on Takeover before doing the angle at the end of the night?
                  Yeah, that's right - Takeover R Evolution, I think? Robinson broke Owens' nose with a palm strike.

                  Actually, unrelated I know, but I see Robinson is back in the US with David Finlay as a tag team to appear on Impact, which is interesting. I wonder if WWE have kept on eye on how he's done in NJPW, because he's really had a great run there.

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                  • I was looking forward to how they’d handle the Escobar-Kross match but it looks to have been pulled according to the front page.

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                    • So let me get this straight...a face in Dexter Lumis literally kidnaps and abducts Austin Theory and is caught on camera doing so, and the WWE is not doing anything about this?

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                      • Remember when Austin dropped HHH in a car from a top of a forklift?

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                        • So good.
                          https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
                          My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Powder View Post
                            So let me get this straight...a face in Dexter Lumis literally kidnaps and abducts Austin Theory and is caught on camera doing so, and the WWE is not doing anything about this?
                            There are no faces and heels.

                            Let's be honest, shades of grey have existed around alignments for so long now, Austin obviously being a starting point but there were things like Sheamus shitting in Del Rio's rental car which were absolutely ridiculous.

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                            • It is quite funny, WWE have been 'post' babyface and heel for more than 20 years now, AEW bang on about they don't do babyface and heel, and yet seemingly no one has worked out a way to actually do that yet. They all just end up in this mixed-up world of nothingness.

                              You can take the thing about the face out of his point, though, and it still kinda stands. Wrestling was better when there were tangible consequences that had the faint whiff of reality about them. If something like that happens in a world where there might be consequences, you're thinking 'What on earth are they going to do about Lumis now, this has to escalate!' But in the world they've created, it becomes just 'eh they're doing this thing where one of the guys kidnaps the other guy'.

                              "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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                              • Oh, absolutely - it's completely nuts when you think about it. Imagine in if 1999 people had just gone 'oh well, Stephanie's been kidnapped, guess it sucks to be her!' before the Black Wedding stuff? Appreciate that it's different in that Taker was very, very much a heel at the time, but that's what immediately comes to mind when I think of 'WWE Kidnapping'.

                                Anyway, just to put my weekly 'I love Kyle O'Reilly' post out there - I love Kyle O'Reilly.

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