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  • The details I loved about the segment was hold the story unfolded. "Why is he rich? Why is he talking about video games like we've ever heard of them? Why is he talking about Gamesto... OH!!!"

    It came together really well, and once we were figuring out what happened, he had a few extra lines that added to everything. I loved it.

    Where I disagree with you COACH is that it was the only segment where it didn't feel like an act. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I find Kross to be very believable and real in his role, Regal as well, Grizzled Young Veterans, Ciampa/Thatcher...

    I know the Tian Sha stuff comes off as over the top, but it's so good and it doesn't cross the line into silly, for me anyways.

    That said, Gargano and The Way perfectly encapsulate what you are referring to as scripted and fake. Shotzi as well, though it is more that instead of being turned up to 11, she's turned up to 28. Dial it back to 11 and I think it could work.


    • Ciampa and Thatcher are real, but also both feel like they're turned down to 3. Someone's handing out percs in the back, maybe.

      I can't look at Kross cutting those super intense promos anymore and not see Superintendent Chalmers' assistant from The Simpsons. Always on edge like he's about to snap at any second. Not that I think he's doing a bad job, it's just that's all I can see now.
      My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show


      • The Tian Sha stuff works because it is rooted in hundreds of years of reality. The Tian Sha stuff goes back for centuries when (not only) Asian cultures would train soldiers and fighters in these types of methods. Many movies have delved into this, including but not limited to Jean Claude Van Damme's Kickboxer. Yes, the WWE is also playing into the mystical component, but the training methods for Li and Boa have been used (right or wrong) for centuries It is believable. Sha has influence over Li and Boa, maybe its familial ties with debts, or some sort of blackmail, but any way you want to way look at it, Sha has significant influence over the two of them. And now through some sort of blind allegiance, blackmail, or brainwashing they are loyal. Yes, the prowrestling aspect ofthis is clearly evident, but it is good and entertaining, and makes people want to tune in to find out the entire story, and back story to why all this is happening.

        To the contrary, Grimes is just awful. It went way past 'over the top' prowrestling and into give me a f'n break. And really, they are using a flash in the pan fad.

        See, Pen always accuses me of being a card carrying member of the IWC, and interjecting my wants into the story instead of watching the story. He has some points there, but Grimes' character is not my IWC membership showing. Grimes' character is not prowrestling in all its glory. Grimes' character is an attempt by the WWE to capitalize on a Reddit fad that had real life outcomes, and has already gone away and has become old news, after only 2 weeks. Grimes had go away, get off my screen heat prior to getting injured, and now it is worse. The way I see it is, the exact opposite, the IWC members like Grimes' ring ability so they rationalize his gimmicks. The IWC usually loves the wrestlers that can go in the ring, and back what ever they do, instead of taking that step back and looking at the entire thing. I am actually taking Pen's advise here and looking at the WWE's entertainment angle with Grimes, and it is terrible, really, really terrible. I appreciate Grimes'' inring ability, but so far, every WWE gimmick is just bad.

        Addressing Thatcher, the ratings clearly do not like Thatcher, but when you watch him, he is believable. The guy looks menacing, and has a move set that can make people he can legitimately hurt you. But the problem with Thatcher is that he is boring with no charisma and no character. People will believe that Thatcher could break you apart, but as a wrestling character, they are simply not interested.

        Grimes does have an excess of personality, and charisma, but his character is just that of 'Just shut up and go away' and if you met him in real life, you would laugh at him, not be jealous of him, let alone scared of him. Ted DiBiasi was mentioned as a comparison of this millionaire gimmick. The main difference between the two, is that MDM was an arrogant rich asshole, who backed up his words with his ability, and yes he also cheated to win...Virgil. Grimes is no where near that type. Grimes makes me want to turn the TV off, which is a bad thing.
        Last edited by Powder; 02-12-2021, 02:11 PM.


        • There's nothing wrong with your opinion, or not liking Grimes. But I think I'm just trying to say you should think critically about it when suggesting it needs to change. It feels like what you're saying is "I don't like it so it needs to change to suit my desires". I know you might not be meaning it that way, but that's how it comes off to me.

          In comparison, I can't get enough Timothy Thatcher. He might be my favorite NXT wrestler right now. But apparently the ratings for his matches don't do well. Does that mean he's boring? I can see why some may feel that way, but I don't care because I'm not bored.

          That said, I can think critically about it, and find suggestions to improve Thatcher that would still satisfy what I like, while improving his reputation with other fans. I agree he's likely a bit too stripped down to basics. This team with Ciampa is a lot like Revival or Grizzled Young Veterans in that they are good wrestlers who have the characters of being good wrestlers. It's not a bad thing, but it's not a barnburner. They are relatively new as a team, so I would suggest giving them time, but that leads to the obvious "Pen is a WWE Stan with the typical stan answer of let it play out." Fine.

          If they are to remain as a team, maybe they should return a bit to the Thatch as Thatch can gimmick, but with Ciampa curbing Tim's heel antics of taking liberties with the rookies. I would also let them each have their own personalities. Right now they are both veteran grapplers, again like Revival, GYV, BrainBusters... and all those teams were very good, but seemed to lack that "oomph" from reaching star level, because both partners were very similar. Compare that to the Hart Foundation. Another team lacking real characters, but one reason they seem to be regarded as a step above their peers is likely because the Hitman and The Anvil were unique and distinguished personalities and styles in the team.

          So in the case of Thatcher, let him be a face/tweener. More like Ken Shamrock was in 97-99, where he was a face, but would "snap" and go too far. Ciampa could be the voice of reason, keeping Thatcher focused on the prize of tag titles and carrying the mic work.

          Coming back to Grimes, I feel you're letting your personal distaste for the man cloud what he's doing right. We all have preferences and biases. I fully admit there's likely more in AEW that I would enjoy if I gave it a chance, but I just can't let go of the few little things that bug me so much. We all do it. But while I don't like AEW, and I point out the faults when appropriate, I also acknowledge what it does well, and highlight the impressive story telling they are able to achieve. You on the other hand just hate everything about Grimes, and barely recognize what he does bring to the table.


          • I got curious after your discussion, so I stuck 'Cameron Grimes' into the Twitter search box. Here are the results.

            'Cameron Grimes with the Promo of the Decade so far'

            'All in on rich Cameron Grimes'

            'Cameron Grimes is the most entertaining wrestler on Twitter'

            'This development for Cameron Grimes is amazing'

            Someone gave Cameron Grimes as the reason they weren't turning over to Dynamite for a minute

            'That was the best promo ever! Cameron Grimes to the moon!'

            Still going, haven't hit anything negative yet.....

            'This is honestly brilliant'

            'very intrigued with this new gimmick for Cameron Grimes'

            'That's hilarious'

            OK, I'll cut it off here because we've hit one that could be interpreted as negative: 'I don't know if I love it or hate it.'

            "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."


            • I, too, got curious, so I went to YouTube and watched the promo about GameStop and what-not. Meh.


              • That MSK match was fun. That move where the one does a moonsault and the other pushes him is cool. They don’t seem like a team that belongs in WWE, which is why they’re needed I think.
                Last edited by comfortablynumb; 02-14-2021, 08:37 PM.


                • It was better than the Gargano VS Kushida match, but they both suffered from a lack of emotion, too much choreography, and kick outs of moves that sound end the match. It's a bigger sin in a tag match because they have the option of a tag partner save. Instead, kicking out of the a 450 twisting splash... I dunno. It lost me.

                  The women's tag was very good though. Had great submissions, which I wasn't expecting.

                  Women's title seemed short and off, especially after the amount of kick outs from the previous two matches.


                  • Pete Dunne matches always entertain me. He always provides a good change up for opponents.
                    Last edited by comfortablynumb; 02-14-2021, 09:44 PM.


                    • I'm only half way through the show, but can we all agree we're recognizing how great Cameron Grimes is after seeing his fucking MUSIC VIDEO!?

                      EDIT: I could not possibly love more the style of professional wrestling NXT has been putting on in the main event since Balor won the belt. It, if nothing else, completely sets them apart from their Wednesday night competition.

                      Like, I watched that match with a hyper critical eye given who was in it, and the only thing that I could really critique was an arm wrench reversal spot very early on that I'm not sure anyone that wasn't looking for something to critique would ever pick up on.

                      This main event scene the last few months is what's keeping me interested in pro wrestling right now. It makes me downright jealous. I'm honestly not sure how it would play to the masses, but for me it's gold.

                      I liked the women's match overall, but there were a few lazy corner cutting things throughout people do to conserve energy in a cardio-heavy match that really stood out to me, especially given who was in it.
                      Last edited by Team Farrell; 02-15-2021, 02:18 AM.
                      My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show


                      • Grimes' music video has me absolutely on the Grimes Train. The 'to the moon' bits they cut in were absolute genius. I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it without overanalysing it.

                        I wish they'd done Storm vs Shirai as a singles match, and think that's coming down the line after how it ended. The thing is, I think both Shirai vs Storm and Shirai vs Martinez could be perfect singles matches, and I'm not sure the sum of the parts actually added up to more in the triple threat. That said, I think the show as a whole really benefited from having a short(er) match on it, and maybe it's just a shame it was the triple threat as opposed to Gargano vs Kushida.

                        I never want to see a double stomp on a suspended opponent in a corner again, mind. It gave me horrible flash backs to the ADR ones where it took him about two minutes to set himself while the opponent just held themselves in there doing nothing. I think it can work, I think there's probably a quicker way to get there than Shirai did, but I've not seen one look 'natural'

                        Balor vs Dunne was absolutely phenomenal. I'm not sure what they've done to Finn in the last year, but this is the best in ring run I've ever seen him have. I don't think it was quite as good for me as the first O'Reilly match, but it was at least the level of their second one. Interesting post-match stuff too which sets up a few angles to go with coming out of the show.


                        • Cameron Grimes' entire gimmick is:

                          And it is NOT a good thing. I know I am in the minority, but that does not make me wrong.


                          • Grimes, the main event, and the women's tag were easily the highlights of Takeover, for me. 7 out of 10, but that main event was a 9.5, and the women's tag was an 8.


                            • Originally posted by Powder View Post
                              Cameron Grimes' entire gimmick is:

                              And it is NOT a good thing. I know I am in the minority, but that does not make me wrong.
                              I mean, it's an opinion. An opinion can't be wrong. If you'd come in and said that 'Grimes' promo taking up half an hour of Takeover was stupid' you would be wrong because it was about 3 minutes. But otherwise it's your take on it.

                              I'm kind of looking forward to the next step of Grimes' character from here - the feud that comes in to help this character establish itself, and the personality he gives to it in the ring as opposed to outside it.


                              • Originally posted by Oliver View Post
                                I wish they'd done Storm vs Shirai as a singles match, and think that's coming down the line after how it ended. The thing is, I think both Shirai vs Storm and Shirai vs Martinez could be perfect singles matches, and I'm not sure the sum of the parts actually added up to more in the triple threat. That said, I think the show as a whole really benefited from having a short(er) match on it, and maybe it's just a shame it was the triple threat as opposed to Gargano vs Kushida.
                                Gargano vs Kushida was as long as the main event! Just because guys have the wind to do it, doesn't mean it needs to be done. And they seemed like they were trying to work a somewhat similar style as the main event, but without the level of aggression guys like Balor, O'Reilly, Dunne, etc. are pulling out.

                                This show probably would have benefitted form a sixth match. Apparently the women had 20, but went less than 15. So if you give Gargano vs Kushida 18 instead of 25, give the women 15 instead of 20, you could have fit a quick 12 minute cruiserweight contenders match or something on there.
                                My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show