NXT

[Powder]

I do not consider the Backlot Brawl a cinematic match. Yes there were multiple cameras and a huge set that they were all over, and there were added people in the match, but it clearly was not the same as Taker/AJ or the Stadium Match. No movie moments, or special effects added, or cuts that made you think it wasn't actually taking place, other than the poor choice of timing with the dark, as Pen pointed out.

Coach you even said it. It was played as a straight match. How was this match any different than any other no holds barred/no DQ match, with the lone exception of the location? It wasn't. So I would not call this a cinematic match.

[Team Farrell]

It was obviously shot in multiple takes with shots you'd never be able to get in one take. It was as much a cinematic match as that terrible MITB match was, it just had less stupid comedy and frustrating silliness. But it's not a match wrestled and shot in one take as a pro wrestling match, it's a fight scene.

[comfortablynumb]

I had a feeling that El Hijo turn was coming and I still
enjoyed it a lot. Santos Escobar is here. Also loved how he didn’t speak English until now.

[Powder]

I have no idea to what they are doing with NXT as a whole.

Velveteen Dream cannot challenge Adam Cole anymore for the NXT title with his loss last Sunday.
Enter Dexter Lumis to continue his feud with the UE and faces Cole last night and nearly beats him. Dream makes the save.
Earlier in the night Keith Lee approached Cole and the UE and implies that he wants the NXT title.
Later, after Lumis and Dream chase off Fish and Strong, Scarlett comes out and in an amazing segment puts down an hour glass telling Cole his time is almost up and Kross is coming for him.

So what in the hell is NXT doing? Lee, Lumis and Kross are now all gunning for Cole?

I get the the champ has challengers from all sides, but usually in wrestling, you have one feud at a time.

[meandi]

Except for when they don’t. How many triple threat and fatal four way title matches have there been before?

[Team Farrell]

NXT does this on a semi regular basis. I personally like the idea that everyone is gunning for the belt, and you don't know who's going to be next.

It's fun to not know. And everyone wanting it makes the NXT Title mean that much more.

They'll probably do a triple threat or four way contender match to come up with one clear challenger, and two of the other three can spin off into something. Probably Lumis challenging Cole, since he's so tied up with AE already, while Kross and Lee will spin off.

[comfortablynumb]

Balor indicated he’s Going after the NA title so that will keep Lee busy. Lumis I could see pivoting into a feud with Roderick Strong since there seems to be something extra going on between those two.

[The Cook]

I'd say it seems like Dream/Lumis will spin off into a feud with Strong/Fish that'll result in O'Reilly's return. Cole/Kross and Balor/Gargano will be the NXT and NA Title matches at the next TakeOver with Keith Lee being involved in one or the other, most likely the NA Title with Balor & Gargano.

[Team Farrell]

Lumis has a lot of potential. He looks really good, and I think would go far on the main roster just based on the fact that he's athletic enough to keep up with anyone, but works a style and speed that guys like Orton and AJ would love to work with.

I hope he doesn't get called up too soon though. He's still missing a little something in ring based on that match with Cole. He needs a little more explosiveness.

There were just a few things, like that first spinebuster, where they felt a little slow and he hadn't kicked that gear up for the move.

Triple H should be sending him to Texas for a week to have Taker review his tapes and work with him on keeping they slow, menacing pace but peppering in a little more explosiveness when it counts.

[Powder]

And shave that 'stache.

[PEN15v2]

Stache stays.

[Team Farrell]

I actually like the stache. It ages him and makes him look like a grown adult man. I believe he'd look a little "plain" without it.

[Powder]

But the guy is already 36. I know that is not old, and in modern pro wrestling guys wrestle well into their mid 40s, so it is reasonable for a newcomer to be a top champion later in life, BUT I still am of the mindset that wrestling promotions need to have champions begin their main event careers around 30, so they can be top talent for 10-15 years. If Lumis is now getting his feet under him, he has at least a year in NXT, then at least a year on the main roster before even smelling a top title.

Age definitely comes into play. We have all talked about how the WWE (and now AEW) need to create and build new stars. Why create a new star that is closer to the end of his career than the beginning? Guys like Keith Lee almost 36, Lumis 36, Damien Priest 38, all are NOT long term future of the company, even Karrion Kross is 35. Say what you will about Roman Reigns but he was 30 at the start of his main event run, Rollins was 29, and Ambrose was 30. Three guys that were all in that target range, and all three are still main event players (yes Moxley is now in AEW) and they have 7+ years on the main roster, with 5+ being former multiple time world champions, with at least 5-10 more to go. Also Bray Wyatt is still only 33 with 7+ years on the main roster. And with McIntyre being 35, the WWE has 4 cornerstone pieces that can be main event players for another 2-3 years while they find some 24-26 year olds (now) to take their place in 2-3 years.

Who in NXT has the look, size, character and age that fits that profile? Velveteen Dream, Austin Theory, Brendan Vink (no idea on his age) come to mind, but that is it. Matt Riddle is already is already 34, and who knows how his main roster run will be yet.

But I believe that age matters for long term gain and stars. Short term, do what you want, but as everyone learns with age comes more injury, and slower recovery. You need to build young.

FYI, AEW has a few blue chips in Jungle Buy and MJF (the future of wrestling), Sammy Guevara and Daeby Allin, and they are building those guys correctly. The only 'problem' I see with them, is the obvious lack of size.

[Prime Time]

You say pick someone of a certain age like creating new stars is easy. There's been one new star in the last 15+ plus years. At this point you don't write someone off because they are 35, you jump on anyone that shows any sign of becoming a star. It clearly can't be planned out as neatly as all that or they'd be a bunch of them around.

[Team Farrell]

But the guy is already 36. I know that is not old, and in modern pro wrestling guys wrestle well into their mid 40s, so it is reasonable for a newcomer to be a top champion later in life, BUT I still am of the mindset that wrestling promotions need to have champions begin their main event careers around 30, so they can be top talent for 10-15 years. If Lumis is now getting his feet under him, he has at least a year in NXT, then at least a year on the main roster before even smelling a top title.

Age definitely comes into play. We have all talked about how the WWE (and now AEW) need to create and build new stars. Why create a new star that is closer to the end of his career than the beginning? Guys like Keith Lee almost 36, Lumis 36, Damien Priest 38, all are NOT long term future of the company, even Karrion Kross is 35. Say what you will about Roman Reigns but he was 30 at the start of his main event run, Rollins was 29, and Ambrose was 30. Three guys that were all in that target range, and all three are still main event players (yes Moxley is now in AEW) and they have 7+ years on the main roster, with 5+ being former multiple time world champions, with at least 5-10 more to go. Also Bray Wyatt is still only 33 with 7+ years on the main roster. And with McIntyre being 35, the WWE has 4 cornerstone pieces that can be main event players for another 2-3 years while they find some 24-26 year olds (now) to take their place in 2-3 years.

Who in NXT has the look, size, character and age that fits that profile? Velveteen Dream, Austin Theory, Brendan Vink (no idea on his age) come to mind, but that is it. Matt Riddle is already is already 34, and who knows how his main roster run will be yet.

But I believe that age matters for long term gain and stars. Short term, do what you want, but as everyone learns with age comes more injury, and slower recovery. You need to build young.

FYI, AEW has a few blue chips in Jungle Buy and MJF (the future of wrestling), Sammy Guevara and Daeby Allin, and they are building those guys correctly. The only 'problem' I see with them, is the obvious lack of size.

I couldn't disagree more. Most talent's top money making years don't even start until their mid 30s. Even at the lowest possible end of when someone would say he caught fire, Austin was 33. It was really when he was 34 that he started really picking things up. Hogan was 30 before he went to WWE.

Guys in their late 20s often lack a certain level of maturity, and physically look very young. This whole "guys need to be young" thing more or less started when guys began working a style and taking bumps that wore their bodies out by 35.

Orton is 40 and intends to wrestle for another 10 years. Cena is 43 and could probably physically wrestle into his 50s if he hadn't gotten over in Hollywood. They've picked their spots when it comes to risk taking and been smart.

Kross is in his mid 30s, but only has six years of mileage on his body as a wrestler. A guy like Lumis has spent close to a decade working a style that will preserve him to wrestle deep into his 40s.

WWE got lucky with Cena and Hogan as guys who could be top guys for 15 years. But that's the exception, not the rule. It's really unusual to get a top talent as the top guy in one company for that long without fans getting bored. Shit, after four years, people were "tired" of Cena as a top guy, and bitch today any time Orton gets a push over an above a "young" talent. Rollins got the big push at 29, and the most vocal fans are done with him now while he's still got another decade or more in his body if he plays it smart.

It's good for them to have these young guys in the system, but someone like Theory is nowhere near ready to be a top guy, and Dream probably never will. But some of these bigger dudes like Priest, Lee and and Lumis who are older, which adds a level of experience and maturity to them as human beings, could be slotted in upper card roles today.

The problem with there having been one major company for 20 years is that there was nowhere to go. Someone like Dream could get called up and be a midcard guy, but if he's a midcard guy until he's matured and experienced and been there and done that, like you want out of a top guy, he's going to be Zigglered. In past generations, he could go to another territory or WCW or ECW, "learn a new hold" and come back with a good portion of the crowd having not seen him for a long time.

Could you imagine "Stunning" Steve getting a big push to the main event at 30? Hogan, Savage, Flair, Sting, etc. would have eaten him alive as a personality.