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  • #76
    I'm not disagreeing at all. BUT I can buy Gable vs Corbin. Corbin is tall, yes, and a 'lean' 285lbs, and does not look that menacing. Same for Priest. 6'5" and 250ish. Lean.

    Lashley at 6'3" and 275lbs of solid muscle or Braun at 6'8" and 385ish or Drew at 6'5" 265lbs . Are very different, and they would dwarf Gable.

    But can you picture Gable vs Braun or Lashley?

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    • #77
      I don't know if I'd look at any individual moves because lots of smaller guys can do them. But I think you're right, Oli, nevertheless.

      So, I look at Gable and see a guy they are billing at just over 202 lbs. Bill him at 210, 215 - where you'd be a heavyweight in boxing, collegiate wrestling, MMA - and would people swallow it? I'm inclined to say yeah, to be honest. Eddie Guerrero was the same height as Gable - Eddie was a bit thicker so I might be wary about billing them as the same weight, but I don't see an issue putting Gable as 5-10 lbs lighter. Then, he's a heavyweight - at the lighter end of the class, sure, but a heavyweight none the less.

      Mysterio, on the other hand - you have to sell him as the exception because if you try and sell him as a heavyweight no one is going to buy it. There are guys who are in the realm where you can just use the old wrestling tricks in someone's presentation, and there are guys who are beyond that, and you have to treat them as an 'exceptional' smaller athlete, a Sugar Ray Leonard type who can win world titles at Welter all the way up to Light-heavy, if you want to do something particularly substantial with them.

      "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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      • #78
        To pull a recent example on the heavyweight vs cruiserweight debate - Finn Balor was billed at 5'11", 195lbs and won the Universal Championship four weeks after debut with barely an eyelid blinked.

        Now, there are extenuating circumstances around his history being a major point as to why he got that push, his 'indy cred', if you like, helping him be over and making him on that level pretty quickly, which Gable of course doesn't have. But if someone who's three inches taller but billed ~10lbs lighter can hit that level and nobody ask whether they are 'legitimate' against potential opponents, I don't see why Gable couldn't be considered similarly - especially if you play up his amateur background meaning he can take down and mat grapple pretty much anybody on the roster.

        Heck, the guy is an Olympiad. That in itself probably carries enough weight to put him over with more casual fans.

        What's Rollins billed out? I think he maybe is billed at 6' dead, but I'm not sure he looks much thicker/heavier than Gable does even with the extra inches.

        EDIT: Actually, Powder, on Lashley - he and Gable were, I believe, billed at the same weight in their amateur careers (84kg). If Lashley could bring is amateur game, I could see a really enjoyable match between those two happening.
        Last edited by Oliver; 02-25-2021, 12:09 PM.

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        • #79
          Height makes a lot of difference. Thickness plays a part, but just look at the face to face 'poster shot' if you will. A guy who is 5'11" or 6' is going to match up visually better than a guy 3-4" shorter.

          Do not get me wrong. I love Gables work and ability. I also thing that he could be a bigger star than he currently is. But the optics holds him back.

          Look at Montez Ford. My first thought is that he is like Finn, Skinny, muscular, but cut up. yet Ford is billed at 232lbs and 6'1". I'll be honest, in that I would never have thought that Ford was 232lbs, but take a look. To me he looks skinnier than Gable, but he isn't and he is 4 inches taller, but Ford still looks 'small' by comparison to his Partner for one.
          latest?cb=20170919203226.png

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          • #80
            Height, I mean I hear it does make a big difference for Vince. I'm not sure it needs to make as big a difference as it does for WWE, nor would matter quite so much to a wider crowd. Mike Tyson, for example, wasn't a tall man - but between the rest of his build and the aura of menace that accompanied him, no one even really seemed to notice. So I guess the optics probably will continue to hold him back, but I'm not entirely convinced that they should - while there are plenty of guys we've seen in wrestling over the years where it'd be inevitable.

            "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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            • #81
              The difference between Gable and some of his taller co-workers is that he could stretch them legitimately. If you put that front and centre in his presentation, and allow him to break people down while still doing some of the flashier stuff he's capable of, his height won't be that big of a deal. I'd also bill him a little bigger, 215 or so wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

              He's proven that he can have some good matches with people like Corbin. And guys like Braun and Lashley are the exception in that company, they aren't common and wouldn't be people he'd have to face every week. He could get it done as an underdog against guys like that if they wanted him to.

              Not everyone can be a believable underdog at 5'8, but some guys can. I don't necessarily think that Gable should be a main event guy, but as a credible upper middle card threat, it wouldn't be difficult.

              Keep in mind that Triple H at 6'4, 260 didn't buy Kurt Angle at four inches and forty pounds smaller than him until someone pointed out that Angle wouldn't even break a sweat stretching him if he got the urge. And then H went out of his way to make Kurt Angle look like a million bucks.


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              • #82
                I guess that's what I'm kind of thinking when I talk about him bringing a 'big man' down to the mat in the ring. I'm not going to expect Gable to be able to spear someone like Lashley off his feet, but if they were to play up the fact that he spent years working out how to take people down on the amateur mat and once he gets them there his height, or lack thereof, doesn't matter because that's where he's dominant, that kind of thing could work.

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                • #83
                  Here's the point everyone is missing: It's too late. Angle was made to be a million bucks on his rise to the top, not 3 years after he's been jobber or in the midcard the entire time. This odesn't mean all is lost for Gable, but it'll take a lot more effort than just "giving him the ball".

                  And at the end of the day, I don't see his value to be pushed this way. Sure, we can have a great amateur wrestler being pushed, but you can grab anyone in NXT and make him that guy. Current NXT midcard guy Tyler Rust is being pushed for his technical skills. Change his gear to a singlet and he could easily be a "stretcher."

                  This isn't a discredit to Gable, and WWE has failed him way more than he's failed WWE. But at this point it will take a lot of effort to get him into the role suggested by Angle. Angle is a lot like the most fickle of online fans and thinks something is unfair. But the main event scene in WWE is still for larger guys. Miz looks small compared to Lashley, Braun, Sheamus, and Drew (all the guys in the title mix on Raw) and also Roman (on SD), and Miz makes Gable look small. Is it really worth sacrificing whoever would need to lose to build Gable up, to get him to the main event? I don't see it.

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                  • #84
                    I agree with that about 50%. But since the 50% I agree with is, it's too late, then it makes the bits where I don't agree irrelevant, really. Yeah, it's too late.

                    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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                    • #85
                      If he was brand new to the roster, then we'd be agreeing 100%. Those issues I mentioned don't have to be a factor, but they are going to be a factor now because he hasn't really done anything since leaving NXT.

                      Compare it to Cesaro. While he hasn't been pushed steadily, he has still booked better over the years than Gable has ever been. And now he's on a serious and credible hot streak, and it's credible because he has the size AND chops to pull it off. He's not exactly ready to unseat Roman or Big E, and he's likely viewed as an underdog in the feud I sense starting with Seth Rollins. But with a win over Rollins, he could be a credible main event guy.

                      Give that same push to Gable right now, and it just won't click the same way. He has one obvious advantage over Cesaro and that's on the mic. But his mic work has mostly been about being goofy. He can be serious, but his best moments were goofy like "Ready Willing and Gable" or whatever it was.

                      You want the most effortless way to get Gable to a better position? Keep him in this team with Otis, and let them have success. Along with Cesaro, Big E is another man who's been rebuilt for singles after a standard midcard run several years ago. Thanks to success in the tag division, it's a new lease on life. Cesaro benefitted the same way with Nakamura, Sheamus, and Tyson Kidd as partners after his singles runs. So let Gable succeed in this team with Otis. Let him use his mic work, and show only flashes of the amateur ability. Let Otis steal the show physically. Then when the inevitable WWE tag team split takes place, you can start Gable on a singles run and have more freedom to have him become a threat.

                      But just putting him in the ring in singles against the SD roster now? I just don't see a reason for him to get wins over anyone else who's on the right path.

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