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Shayna Baszler

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Team Farrell View Post
    is either purposely missing the point
    We have a winner!

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    • #17
      Originally posted by PEN15v2 View Post
      Hmm... you are astoundingly incorrect, because I seem to remember a main event of SummerSlam with planned blood a few years back. The talk of blood being banned and people being fined seemed to be something discussed in dirtsheets and within fans, but not in any official terms. It feels that blood is to be used sparingly, and not to let it be the focus of the show. Judging by how the Shayna/Becky segment went, it also feels that over-the-top unrealisitc blood feels safer than realistic.

      If you're going to attack WWE or Vince, there are plenty of legit reasons. But being a "I'll add LOL to my comment to ridicule whoever I'm replying to" anti-WWE fan without any real reason makes no sense.

      Any business changes and evolves as they go. From Orton vs Brock years back, to Shayna attacking Becky, it feels like planned blood is saved for what they deem to be special occasions. How that makes them schizophrenic is beyond me, but you do you, my friend. Just continue to add LOL to feel better about yourself.
      Pointing out that Vince is extremely erratic and capricious isn't some baseless attack.

      In 2015, at the HIAC match between Taker and Brock, they sent in a referee to clean up Brock who got busted up unexpectedly, and Brock shoved him aside and continued the match.

      Then the next year, they did that Orton/Brock match, where we all know what happened, and it was so graphic that even one Chris Jericho had a backstage incident with Brock because they didn't even tell him it was a work, and he was genuinely concerned that Orton got messed up.

      That doesn't seem like a sudden swing to you? One year 'we've gotta prevent any blood whatsoever', and the next year 'I feel like doing something super graphic, oh and let's work the fucking boys like Jericho by not telling them because we're in a WCW 1999 mood or something'.

      Comment


      • #18
        Not especially - those matches are, what, 9-10 months apart? Things change. Also, it's situational - if they plan something with blood then they are probably OK to let it run. If the blood is unplanned, it could potentially lead to much more serious issues.

        Now, in the case of Brock/Orton, I must admit I've never been that confident on which way it fell - was the level of blood intentional? I don't think so. Was Orton supposed to get cut hardway? Possibly. Was the ending supposed to put Brock over as an especially vicious person? Absolutely.

        It certainly achieved the third point, which was the aim. In answer to the second point, I think it's a bit more questionable as to whether Orton was supposed to bleed or just be knocked out - given the way Lesnar set up and connected with the elbows I certainly think there was some intention that Orton bled a bit. For the first point - I certainly doubt it was intended that Orton got busted open enough to need ten staples to hold his head together.

        Equally, on the situational point - there is a difference between someone getting cut open and that being the end of the match (where they can immediately get the right medical care to clean the wound and get out of the ring to avoid any risk of infection) and someone getting cut open in the middle of a match and having to continue to compete while bleeding.

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        • #19
          And Alan, it is baseless. Because we actually know nothing about Vince except for what people like big dumb Dave claim about him. And no matter how much you believe in these rumors, we honestly know nothing factual.

          I'm not going to pretend I know why Vince okayed "shit" to be said last night, and fake blood to be used the week before. Some people will assume AEW is the influence. Some might suspect that there's a plan in place for a more mature product. Some might claim Vince just woke up on the wrong side of the bed and was erratic that day.

          But in the end, no one actually knows. So attacks are in fact baseless.


          Also, I don't think it takes a brain surgeon to see that all 3 brands are delivering a different or unique show from the others. While Smackdown has dog food in their main event, Raw is having angles about infidelity and biting until there's blood. Other than The Fiend on SDL, it's a more kid aimed product. I think it's fair to discuss that maybe that was the plan with the move to Fox, using the network show to be the most pg, while USA can be a bit more mature in content. It doesn't feel like an erratic change since October. It's been gradual, while kicking it up a notch for Wrestlemania season.

          Definitely nothing WCW 1999 with that idea.

          Speaking of, thanks for dropping the lol, but the replacing with insults like comparing to WCW is still pretty lame. Especially because it's another baseless method of being a troll.
          Last edited by PEN15v2; 02-18-2020, 07:16 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by PEN15v2 View Post
            It's been gradual, while kicking it up a notch for Wrestlemania season.
            This is the time of year, every year, you get angles with cursing and blood. They're ratcheting things up on the way to Mania. Wasn't it this time (or maybe just before Rumble) a few years ago where they did the angle that they smashed Roman's nose?

            Otherwise, cursing happens every now and then, when they want to get the reaction from the crowd. They haven't stopped a match cold for blood probably since 2015. It might have even been that Cell match that opened their eyes.

            But that's the thing, Vince is smart enough to recognize that a little blood, whether fake or serendipitous like Ciampa a few weeks ago, can get a reaction and add to a segment when it's not done in every main event match. Cursing on a show changes the air in the room and really gets a reaction, when you don't do it every week.

            It seems odd because it's made odd on purpose.
            https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
            My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

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            • #21
              Originally posted by PEN15v2 View Post
              And Alan, it is baseless. Because we actually know nothing about Vince except for what people like big dumb Dave claim about him. And no matter how much you believe in these rumors, we honestly know nothing factual.

              I'm not going to pretend I know why Vince okayed "shit" to be said last night, and fake blood to be used the week before. Some people will assume AEW is the influence. Some might suspect that there's a plan in place for a more mature product. Some might claim Vince just woke up on the wrong side of the bed and was erratic that day.

              But in the end, no one actually knows. So attacks are in fact baseless.


              Also, I don't think it takes a brain surgeon to see that all 3 brands are delivering a different or unique show from the others. While Smackdown has dog food in their main event, Raw is having angles about infidelity and biting until there's blood. Other than The Fiend on SDL, it's a more kid aimed product. I think it's fair to discuss that maybe that was the plan with the move to Fox, using the network show to be the most pg, while USA can be a bit more mature in content. It doesn't feel like an erratic change since October. It's been gradual, while kicking it up a notch for Wrestlemania season.

              Definitely nothing WCW 1999 with that idea.

              Speaking of, thanks for dropping the lol, but the replacing with insults like comparing to WCW is still pretty lame. Especially because it's another baseless method of being a troll.

              You know you can't just lazily 'but it's just Dave being Dave' out of every news story you don't like, right?

              In the cases I mentioned above, we saw one clearly on TV (Taker/Brock), and the second incident, Jericho has actually publicly talked about Orton/Brock, and the backstage incident he was involved it.

              This isn't 2nd hand or 3rd hand Uncle Dave gossip.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Team Farrell View Post
                This is the time of year, every year, you get angles with cursing and blood. They're ratcheting things up on the way to Mania. Wasn't it this time (or maybe just before Rumble) a few years ago where they did the angle that they smashed Roman's nose?
                I think so - although as I recall it was an injury originally inflicted at a house show by a falling table or something, and they then ran the angle with Triple H to write Roman off and get surgery to sort it out.

                2018 at Mania they had Brock elbow Roman to cut him open, supposedly all planned.

                I think you're right as well, Coach, that they use it sparingly for a reason and plan things. Fortunately this isn't the early- or mid-2000s where everyone is bleeding all the time. During HHHs title reign I feel like he bled in every main event match he had.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Alan View Post
                  You know you can't just lazily 'but it's just Dave being Dave' out of every news story you don't like, right?

                  In the cases I mentioned above, we saw one clearly on TV (Taker/Brock), and the second incident, Jericho has actually publicly talked about Orton/Brock, and the backstage incident he was involved it.

                  This isn't 2nd hand or 3rd hand Uncle Dave gossip.
                  This is nonsense. You listing incidents (I don't remember Brock vs Taker, but I'm assuming you're listing matches with blood, right?) doesn't have anything to do with Vince being erratic or schizo. In fact, you are pretty much proving the point that it isn't a last minute reaction to AEW or erratic, because WWE have done it a few times over the last decade at pretty planned times.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Oliver View Post
                    2018 at Mania they had Brock elbow Roman to cut him open, supposedly all planned.
                    Man, that shit's possible, pretty easy if you're good enough at it and really old school but if they're going to do that just let them blade. It's so much more dangerous if you fuck it up.

                    Have them blade subtly, or just say that they went into business for themselves and they're being fined $10k (oh but look their Mania payout is $10k higher than they thought it would be).

                    Blading is so safe if you're trained properly in how to do it, and it's done right. I get that it's distasteful, the idea of someone purposely cutting their head open with a razor blade, but these are tricks that have been come up with because they're the safe way of doing things.
                    https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
                    My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

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                    • #25
                      Is it possible to, sort of, pre-blade and then have it broken open in the match? A sort of thin initial cut that goes through the skin but not so deep it bleeds greatly, that with a knock in the match becomes a more open cut?

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                      • #26
                        I hear she's basically gone missing of late? People are saying McMahon doesn't like her, though how true that is I don't know.

                        "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Prime Time View Post
                          I hear she's basically gone missing of late? People are saying McMahon doesn't like her, though how true that is I don't know.
                          From what I heard on Jim Cornette's video, she is almost 40 so they need to capitalize on her potential before it is too late.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            She's a really tough one. I have gone on record as saying that I'm not a big fan, but she can be a draw.

                            However, she's so dominant and has this insane intensity. If Rousey was around, there's a built-in match. But look at the roster. There aren't a lot of girls that I can buy going toe-to-toe with a killer like Shayna and not getting merc'd. That's a good thing, it means they've created a real aura around her, but it also means that realistically Charlotte, Becky and Asuka are the three that I really see holding their own with her. Rhea and Io now, I guess.

                            But you book Shayna with chickenshit heel or smiley babyface Bayley or waifish Sasha? She'd overwhelm them. Alexa Bliss? Who do you book her with if Charlotte and Becky are out? You can do a program with Asuka, but either she wins and then what, or she loses and then what?
                            https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
                            My latest (and hopefully last) Covid-Era show

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                            • #29
                              It's like the classic 80s monster heel fed to Hogan. Short burst of squashes, house show run with Hogan, loses mystique when they don't defeat Hulkster, back into the midcard and mostly forgotten.

                              She lost to Becky, and while her mystique isn't completely gone, WWE still should do something to rebuild her. And while most online fans claim having her demolish midcarders is the answer, that demolishes part of the division. Having her crush Liv Morgan, Natalya, Lana, Iconics, and Ruby will only stall the momentum of those other women, who all have value or prospective value. Is it a sacrifice worth making? It's debatable, but I say it's not. Nattie is a vet so likely won't be hurt, and Lana seems like someone who should be released as I don't see her value without Rusev (she's a decent mic worker, but compared to what MVP or Heyman can do... no thanks).But Iconics, Ruby, and to a lesser extent Liv all have upside that I think WWE registers. If I were in charge, I wouldn't want to do anything to hurt them long term, and being smashed by Shayna would do that much more than going 50/50 in the women's midcard.

                              The other side of it is I don't know if WWE has enough time or creative ability to give her a program in the midcard. The current women's midcard angles are very basic wrestling tropes. Nothing bad, but don't require a lot of time or effort to connect with the audience. Shayna would require more than that, especially if they are trying to preserve the credibility of the women who lose to her.

                              I think it's just as successful to keep her off TV until they have something solid in mind. Asuka vs Shayna is a solid match. Both with their similar finishers and realistic intensity and credibility. It's an angle that wouldn't take much effort. Just a shock attack, sort of like what Shayna did to Becky to set up WrestleMania, and you have a Raw Title PPV angle. She could be off TV for a year, and make that shock attack and be over. So in my opinion, being off TV is a good thing.

                              Also, WWE have done a decent job making Asuka and Bayley the top champions. I understand they'll eventually have to lose, but with so much instability in the WWE and the world, I see the logic in letting Asuka run at the top of Raw for now. SummerSlam would be a perfect time for Shayna to return, and she could win the title then, or in rematches after at a Hell in a Cell type show.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Following on from the posts above, I heard someone mention her the other day but honestly I think it was the first time in about a year I had heard her name. Kinda says a lot.

                                "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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