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The Cleaner Kenny Omega Thread

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  • The Cleaner Kenny Omega Thread

    Surprisingly there was not a Kenny Omega thread.

    Well last night we got Kenny's reasons for why he teamed up with Don Callis, and how great Don and Kenny think they are. I will admit my knowledge of Kenny's matches are limited to AEW, but I will concede that he was the 'Big Bout Machine', and can wrestle.

    BUT...

    Man does he need to stop talking. I do not know the right word, but every promo that I have have seen Kenny give in the past year, it is bad, for me.
    Something about his voice, his mannerisms, his diction, and his overall lack of charisma does not do him any good. The man can go, but when he speaks, to me it is like a 13 year old kid who has not gone through puberty telling the reflection in the mirror how great he is. Just have Callis talk for him moving forward.

    Finally, if Kenny Omega is supposed to be this 'greatest wrestler in the world', and his interview last night was promoting that, I absolutely loathe that he needed to resort to cheap tactics to beat Moxley. It completely cheapens his first AEW title win. Kenny told us last night, that he was the reason that AEW came into existence, specifically his match with Jericho, so why take the cheap way out to win your first World Title? i know, heel turn. But let Kenny use those tactics to RETAIN the title. be the arrogant, cocky, cowardly, I must be champion at all costs AFTER you win the title. Using Callis and the microphone devalues the title win for me.

  • #2
    If the goal is to have him say he's the best, but not really be the best - like, if it's always obvious that Mox or whoever would beat him in a fair fight - then it's better the way that it is.

    If he's supposed to be the best and they want us to believe that (fat chance, but in theory) then I agree, that was a misstep.

    It comes down to whether or not we're supposed to buy it when they say it, I guess.

    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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    • #3
      Also, I forgot to mention. I cannot believe all of the old WWF and WWE stuff that Callis and Omega referenced in their interview. Tough Enough, Lex Luger, Lex Express, Ambrose, just to name a few. if you want to say you are not the WWE, why keep mentioning them, especially now that 2 separate companies that are not the WWE are tying to compete with them? Do your own thing.


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      • #4
        What they would tell you is that one of the things that they don't like about WWE is their default position that nothing else in wrestling exists or matters. So, by mentioning WWE, they are actually being an alternative.

        Whether you buy that or not is up to you. Personally, I think that it makes them feel like they are being edgy. It was a better look for a promotion the size of Impact around 7-8 years ago than it is for someone that we're supposed to be buying as direct competition IMHO.

        "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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        • #5
          I think though, to some extent, WWE doesn't bother acknowledging other companies because they don't see any need to. When WCW was a real competitor, they did reference them and take shots - from Billionaire Ted to Gilberg to Billy Gunn using the Jackhammer. Heck, even The Rock ridiculed Juventud Guerrera once. But do you think WWE thinks Impact or AEW (right now) are actually competition? Maybe NXT vs Dynamite weekly, but that's not going to get them worried on Raw or Smackdown.

          Omega's thing, for years, has been that he's the 'Best Bout Machine', basically based off him getting a couple of annual 'best bout' rankings from Tokyo Sports back to back in 2017 and 2018 (and it was slightly a heel move then given that Okada was on a run up to then, and is still on a streak of winning the last 6, and 7 of the last 8).

          Maybe the idea is that he is delusioinally claiming himself as the best. It might be a bit too early to write-off the manner of his win against Moxley as not being in keeping with the new gimmick.

          I'm not sure I'm into this whole AEW/IMPACT collaboration thing, but I'm interested to see where it goes at the very least.

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          • #6
            Do not get me wrong. I'm interested in seeing where the Omega story is going. I also agree that he should have beaten Moxley. But the cheap victory, cheapens the idea that Omega is the 'Best Bout Machine". Yes I know it is heel story telling. Yes I know it makes it so that he can do or say whatever he wants to. Yes I know it protects Moxley in that the finish was dirty.

            But as I said, it makes Omega look less than he did coming into the match. The fact that he had to resort to underhanded tactics to win. Also, as I said, Let Omega use the Cowardly heel keep the title at all costs Ric Flair playbook to RETAIN the title in every upcoming title defense (until it is time to dethrone him). If Omega got a pinfall victory over Moxley, then Callis hands him the microphone and proceeds to bust Moxley open with it, and then the story plays out exactly as it has, then I do not have any issue, as it makes him even more able to proclaim how awesome he is because he beat Jon Moxley 1-2-3 in the middle of the ring.

            I just think that using cheap heel tactics to win the most coveted prize for the first time, with a wrestler with the chops of Omega is cheap and lessens the victory. What is the first thing that anyone will say when they talk about Omega's first AEW title run? Oh he needed Callis and a microphone to win it.

            Think back to HBK's first WWF title...the BoyHood Dream
            Drew's, a lifelong dream, and overcoming adversity
            Daniel Bryan (not first world title) - but Yestlemania
            Kofi - another huge moment
            He who shall not be named - WM huffing his best friend in the middle of confetti
            Goldberg and Warrior - Both beat Hogan with a midcard title to be double champions

            Omega - uses a microphone.
            Powder
            Senior Member
            Last edited by Powder; 12-09-2020, 01:38 PM.

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            • #7
              Yeah, but if he's supposed to be a heel who isn't the best but calls himself the best, it's more annoying if he didn't even win the belt legitimately in the first place.

              So it depends on what they are trying to do. If they want you to believe him when he says he's the best in the world, then yeah, it's a fuck up. If he's an annoying git who talks about being the best but can't win without cheating/help, it's fine. Probably better because he doesn't deserve to be there in the first place, and that's irritating.

              "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

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              • #8
                Cheapening the win is sort of the point. Omega wouldn't have won at all if not for Callis. He was done after the bump to the floor. It's all about generating heat for Omega. That's why they started weeks ago with the stupid, over the top entrance. It's why he's become this pretentious dick.

                It was never intended to be a clean, "epic" win for Omega. It was intended to further a story. If they'd intended this big epic victory and done it the same way, it cheapens it and is a failure. But you're supposed to feel how you feel. That's the point, it's what they want you to feel about the win.

                When they talk about Omega's fist AEW title run, they'll say he did it cheap. Just like The Rock winning his first title recreating the Montreal Screwjob. The story is bigger than the epic highlight reel moment.

                But, as I said, you are supposed to feel this way. You are supposed to feel cheated that a wrestler as good as Kenny needed something cheap to do it. The difference is, people on message boards are talking about the booking of it, whereas traditionally all the heat for cheapening the moment would be squarely on Kenny.
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                • #9

                  There is a difference between a heel using heel tactics and bad booking, and you even stated it.

                  Originally posted by Team Farrell View Post
                  But, as I said, you are supposed to feel this way. You are supposed to feel cheated that a wrestler as good as Kenny needed something cheap to do it. The difference is, people on message boards are talking about the booking of it, whereas traditionally all the heat for cheapening the moment would be squarely on Kenny.
                  When people do not like the booking over the heel tactic, that is a bad job by the producers. People should be talking about Kenny winning and the heel work, but others, like me, did not like the way that it happened.

                  AEW prides itself on being aware of the IWC and for the most part tries to cater to them, at least with lip service, and for years all you hear about is 'Kenny Omega and how great he is'. Now, when it is time to build him up to challenge for the AEW title and he resorts to cheap tactics. That can turn some fans off.

                  Coach you are a booker, what is more important? Having the fans hating the heel, or hating the booking? My guess is hating the heel.

                  You always wanted Ric Flair to 'get his'. You always wanted Austin to stun Vince. You wanted the heel to get punched in the face by the face. But you do not want the fans to complain about how you got there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You can very rarely get anyone to hate the heel now, though, because everyone thinks they are an expert and everyone is second guessing the booking.


                    "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prime Time View Post
                      You can very rarely get anyone to hate the heel now, though, because everyone thinks they are an expert and everyone is second guessing the booking.
                      Touche

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                      • #12
                        Could be just me but i always thought "The Cleaner" was supposed to come off lame. Isnt that the whole point of being a rip off of 80's action movie stars? Unless there are people out there who think they are cool. I dunno. His promos, The entrance. I personally dont ever think it was supposed to be taken serious. Not saying thats a good thing mind you. Just is what it is. Adding Callis in his corner is the smartest thing they could do. Second would be telling Kenny to shut the fuck up.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Powder View Post
                          Coach you are a booker, what is more important? Having the fans hating the heel, or hating the booking? My guess is hating the heel.
                          Dude, you're asking the guy who had two heels come out on TV the week of Remembrance Day to pay tribute to the valiant war heroes in their families...who had fought for the Confederacy.

                          I think heat should go on the heels, and if the heat falls on the company for booking it, I'm sure those people weren't really going to be fans anyway.

                          This is a case where rather than being frustrated at what Kenny did and the moment he robbed them of, people are picking apart the booking for making them feel exactly the way it was intended to make them feel.

                          I think it has more to do with being a smart fans who's in the bubble, knowing that honestly we're always micro analyzing the booking, than it has to do with the booking not being good.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Team Farrell View Post
                            Dude, you're asking the guy who had two heels come out on TV the week of Remembrance Day to pay tribute to the valiant war heroes in their families...who had fought for the Confederacy.
                            You should be working for Vince

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't think WWE would ever even consider putting something like that on TV.

                              Which I really don't get. I don't get fans getting offended by anything a company books that is even a little hot button.

                              If it's "real" then those heels are assholes (and they were ultimately interrupted by babyfaces while "reciting a hymn" in honor of those fallen Confederate soldiers, which was Freebird) so you should hate them. If it's all fake bullshit like the fans keep saying (so "wrestling can be anything") then you know it's not those heels' true feelings and they've been booked to do it and someone is eventually going to give them theirs.

                              TV shows and movies don't get heat for booking racist angles, or allegories to racism, if the heel gets it in the end.

                              If race, gender, sexuality and socioeconomic status are today's hottest buttons, I think heels should be excited to push them.

                              Do I think there should be Fritz Von Erich goose stepping to the ring in 2020? Probably not. Should a heel drop the n-word in a promo? Again, probably not.

                              But questioning Sonny Kiss's manhood and tearing him down for that, only for Kiss to get the big win on pay per view? Go for it. MJF getting sympathy on a babyface who's trying to land a contract with the company and doesn't know where their next paycheque is going to come from if they don't win this week and wind up cut? Have at it! Dax and Cash reimagining the "people like you" promo with Private Party, where Private Party beats them in a big main event for the tag titles where FTR gets a ton of juice? Please!

                              Sometimes companies need to take a step back and not worry about Twitter fans getting hot at the booking, and instead focus on putting the heat on the wrestler. Eventually, the fans who are hot at the booking will either come along for the ride, or fall off entirely.
                              Team Farrell
                              Super Moderator
                              Last edited by Team Farrell; 12-09-2020, 05:13 PM.
                              https://youtu.be/wue-ZFnEta8
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