AEW - Non-Wrestling (Business, Money, Ratings etc.)

[Oliver]

Orton strikes me as being creatively unfulfilled in WWE. Entirely speculation on my part, but when your main thing for, what, three or four years now is to arrive-RKO-leave then maybe have a match without any character development or much more of a significant storyline...I don't know, I think I'd be bored shitless if I was him.

WWE might well offer him a big deal - but I wouldn't bet that Khan can't match it easily.

[Powder]

Cult, I have to ask. Are all/most Lucha Libre matches like how the Lucha Bros vs Party Planners was?

If so, then damn.

BUT, I can see both sides of the coin. One one side it was a completely impressive spot fest from 4 incredibly talented and athletic performers with almost no tagging and more like a tornado tag match, where no tags are necessary, and on the other side there was almost no tag team wrestling with strategy.

But holy shit was that fun and entertaining. For my taste, i would prefer a combination of the two. Have both teams use tag tram psychology, but still show off.

[mizfan]

I would say it was more a PWG/West Coast Indy style match than pure lucha libra, but lucha is an influence on that style so there's some overlap.

I could so easily see an actual called "The Party Planners" in, like, 2008 WWE.

[Powder]

Crap...Private Party. But thanks.

[Oliver]

To be honest, I thought Private Party vs Lucha Bros was awful. Not in terms of action which was as crisp as expected, but in terms of the way they set about having the match itself.

They were doing all this Lucha tag rules stuff where once the legal man touches the outside the other man is legal, but that went completely unexplained and has never been established as the tag rules in the promotion. I'm all for them doing that if they say 'it's Lucha rules' or whatever before the match starts, but without that you've got legal men being covered by illegal men and the ref counting all over the place. Plus, at one point, despite Fenix being nowhere near the ring, it became important that Pentagon was the legal man for some reason, despite it having never been important through the rest of the match and the ref having already shown that he would pretty much count anybody pinning anybody. Half of the double team stuff wasn't even behind the refs back or anything, it was wide open and there were no tags involved - for example, at one point Fenix does a double jump foot stomp to one of Private Party, but Pentagon's the legal man and in the ring. No tag, no ref distraction, Pentagon's just calmly walking across the ring as Bryce Remberg stands and watches this happen. That's not even legal in the sense of Lucha rules! So what ruleset were they adhering to? Or were they just agenting the match backstage and someone went 'Rules? Fuck rules, Cero Miedo!' and that was it?

Otherwise I thought the show was solid from the end of that match until TV time expired (which I loved as a thing to happen). Just that, as an opener, that was really off putting for me. And I say that as someone who is very much a fan of Lucha Bros.

Oh, and the sooner we live in a World with AEW Heavyweight Champion Orange Cassidy in it, the better.

[LK3185]

Been some twitter discussion today about JR bemoaning the tag rules in AEW and I would say to that if you're not going to have strict tag rules, JR can't be burying the rules and such in the match. its distracting and serves no point. if its important, make it important. if its not, then shut up.

[Prime Time]

I always find it worse when everyone ignores the rules. It's better to try and cover it than ignore it. I don't know if that extends so far as burying it and I don't have a clue what JR actually said, but to be honest I'm not sure it can be much worse than just ignoring it, other than for those fans who are already convinced (who, let's face it, JR is not there to appeal to anyway). But ignoring it outright, that's a sure-fire way to put over that your chat about sports presentation was a load of crap, for one thing.

[LK3185]

Its better to cover for it than to call it out i would agree. JR doesn't do that now though. He comes off as a grumpy old man complaining when he's at his worst and that's not good for the show.

If you don't draw attention to a flaw then most likely people aren't worried about it at a certain point.

[Prime Time]

I think the opposite, personally, that most people get confused by stuff like that and mentally tune out. The people who don't do that and who don't notice until it is pointed out are the ones already in tune with what you're doing, who - again - are not the people that they have JR there for in the first place.

But as to how he's coming across, I of course have no real opinion.

[LK3185]

What I'm saying though is if those rules aren't strict, then pointing it out is pointless. "This is stupid chaos and the ref should be fired " is basically what that is and doesn't come off well for the product and I think would make people tuning in want to turn off... instead of like yeah it is stupid but i'll keep watching cause at least JR told me it was stupid.

[Prime Time]

I know what you're saying. What I'm saying is that unless you're already in step with it odds are the product comes across poorly anyway, so nothing anyone says is going to make a huge difference to that one way or the other. So it's hard for me to see how it'll matter, other than to people who are going to watch anyway.

[Team Farrell]

What I'm saying though is if those rules aren't strict, then pointing it out is pointless. "This is stupid chaos and the ref should be fired " is basically what that is and doesn't come off well for the product and I think would make people tuning in want to turn off... instead of like yeah it is stupid but i'll keep watching cause at least JR told me it was stupid.

I'm sure Cody knew this coming in, but JR is going to call this like an actual sport, and isn't going to bury his credibility as an announcer. He's said so very plainly in recent months. If something happens that he can't in good conscience call, he lays out entirely (most of the time if goofy comedy shit is on there or stuff that makes absolutely no sense), but if something flys completely in the face of the rules set forth by the company, he's going to point it out. As he should, and as you'd expect any sports announcer to do.

JR has stated a number of times on commentary that AEW has slightly different tag team rules. He even applauded them for having the 10-count instead of five because, as he said, "it's a more realistic timeframe". But you can bet he's going to point it out when rules are blatantly ignored. Not doing so is a great way to shit all over your rules, and rules only mean something at all if they're enforced. This is a company where "wins and losses matter" and "we're going to have a more sports oriented presentation". That only works if rules are enforced on everyone equally.

JR doesn't need to change this, Cody or Tony or Hebner or someone needs to grow a fucking backbone and tell these guys to work within the company's rules. You have a 10 count to work with, work with it. Or, fuck, do what every referee in the history of pro wrestling, right through to today, is taught to do and count the fuckers out. If they're going to bury you by not even making an attempt to work within the rules -- and that's all it is, burying your ref and making them look like a fool -- count them out or DQ them. Let them sort it out in the back with Cody.

[LK3185]

I would just figure and want everyone to be on the same page. From the wrestlers, backstage people to the announcers.. its not just JR, Excalibur said something like 'rules matter here' and yet, whatever rules AEW does have aren't clearly defined and some people are doing their own thing.. Tony Khan is the boss but I don't believe he's taken control like he should have to help with the flow. They also have really smart people backstage as producers

I would be fine with pointing out the flaws if it meant anything to what was going on.. like if heels were cheating the rules it would make sense.

[Team Farrell]

It's the fact that it's so "by the boys, for the boys" that's becoming a problem with this type of stuff. I have a feeling that Tony wants to be one of "the boys" and as long as the company isn't tanking he's happy to do it.

But take a peek at who works for that company. Cody, Brandi, The Bucks, Kenny, Anderson, Lynn, Malenko, and so on. Anderson, Lynn and Malenko will offer feedback, and are probably agenting matches on some level, but I have no idea what that looks like in AEW, it appears that everyone is just allowed to do their thing.

They don't have a Cornette or a Kevin Sullivan or a Bret Hart. Someone who doesn't have friendly or emotional ties to the guys and will tear a strip off them when they get to the back if they do things like that, regardless of whether it's the greenest green guy or Pentagon.

[LK3185]

I don't really have a problem with the shows, quite enjoy them in fact but it does feel like all they're told is you got this amount of time, go out there and do your thing. I wonder what goes on when things have to be cut short. They actually hit the draw earlier and it kept going like you mentioned earlier. In vids, its looked like Cody is running the show when he's not performing but it must be others too.