Marvel Cinematic Universe - All Marvel Movie/TV discussion

[LWO4Life]

SpiderMan: Homecoming. Even the bit in Civil War when he goes to tell the story, and Stark is like “Yeah, whatever... I gotta go.” That was about the perfect tease.

Good call. And I suppose Incredible Hulk, too, if you don't take it as a continuation from Ang Lee's Hulk.

LK, the thing is why do superhero movies have to do that when others don't? I'm not saying no others do, but take, for example, Mission: Impossible, Tombstone, or Ocean's 11. The leads of those movies--all blockbusters--are already fully formed characters and we don't need to see them start in their formative years or whatever. We just roll with the current predicament they are in. That's how I think more superhero movies should be. Even if audiences don't know the origin, there can be a brief touch on it or something; it doesn't have to be all or most of the movie.

Spiderman though is one of those that EVERYBODY knows. The world doesn't need ANOTHER Spiderman origin story.

I think an origin story is good if it's a good story. I mean look at Iron Man 1. The way the MCU is set up, really Iron Man 2 is Iron Man's connection to the MCU, and if you skip Iron Man 1 and then jump to Iron Man 2, you really aren't missing anything. And the Hulk movie, now in the context of the MCU really makes no sense at all. But Iron Man 1 was just a better movie with an actual story to tell of a man who's greedy and self centered, and you go from that to Iron Man, to now being the voice of reason in the Avengers and giving Spiderman the same speech as Fury gave him in IM2. If the origin story is good, then you should tell it. Black Panther did not get an origin story. He was already Black Panther, which worked for that story, because the story of him getting Black Panther from his dad was not an interesting story. His country was isolated, he was a rich prince, and his dad was the king and got too old to be Black Panther. No need for that origin story. But a character no one knows, like Ant-Man, a criminal, who is trying to redeem himself for his daughter and becomes a super hero, that's a good story to tell.

[XanMan]

No, it wasn't, because the movie should have been about Hank Pym and not Scott Lang, but I get your point.

[LWO4Life]

No, it wasn't, because the movie should have been about Hank Pym and not Scott Lang, but I get your point.

HAHAHA... I thought the same thing too, and I would have loved to see Avengers start off with the whole original team of Iron, Thor, Hulk, Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne, with Cap all from the first movie, but hey, they went this route and I ain't mad at it... LOL.

[JacobWrestledGod]

Talking about the Lee Ang Hulk, anyone found that movie actually underrated and deeply misunderstood?

[Powder]

Talking about the Ang Lee Hulk, anyone found that movie actually underrated and deeply misunderstood?

Fixed, and no way. That movie completely re-wrote the origin of the Hulk and not in a good way. Also the dad (Nick Nolte) as the villain who first made Hulk Dogs and then turned into a "electricity monster", was absolute garbage.

[meandi]

Spiderman though is one of those that EVERYBODY knows. The world doesn't need ANOTHER Spiderman origin story.

I think an origin story is good if it's a good story. I mean look at Iron Man 1. The way the MCU is set up, really Iron Man 2 is Iron Man's connection to the MCU, and if you skip Iron Man 1 and then jump to Iron Man 2, you really aren't missing anything. And the Hulk movie, now in the context of the MCU really makes no sense at all. But Iron Man 1 was just a better movie with an actual story to tell of a man who's greedy and self centered, and you go from that to Iron Man, to now being the voice of reason in the Avengers and giving Spiderman the same speech as Fury gave him in IM2. If the origin story is good, then you should tell it. Black Panther did not get an origin story. He was already Black Panther, which worked for that story, because the story of him getting Black Panther from his dad was not an interesting story. His country was isolated, he was a rich prince, and his dad was the king and got too old to be Black Panther. No need for that origin story. But a character no one knows, like Ant-Man, a criminal, who is trying to redeem himself for his daughter and becomes a super hero, that's a good story to tell.

One last thing about origin stories, and then we close that discussion if y’all want... some characters need a fully fleshed out origin story (Dr. Strange and Ant Man) and some don’t (Black Panther). Some only need a couple of scenes to explain why they’re there all of a sudden (Vision in AoU). I have a feeling going forward (after Captain Marvel, which I’m pretty sure will be a fully fleshed origin story), the writers are going to be able to start incorporating the “few scenes” origin story because of how many Easter eggs and subtle notes they’ve dropped over the past 10 years. For example... Adam Warlock will probably get the Vision treatment because he’s already been hinted at previously. Whenever the X-Men come in, there will be zero backstory. (Except a scene to explain why they’ve been under the radar the entire time.) The F4 can probably pull off the origin story through quick little flashbacks peppered through the movie.

[XanMan]

If they are going to continue the current X-Men timeline and just incorporate those characters and actors, then there would have to be some sort of universe merging going on. Remember, basically when the world found out about superpowered beings in the MCU it was when the attack in New York happened. When the world found out about mutants in the X-Men movies, it was the 1960s.

[meandi]

Eh... recast the X-Men and F4. Run a couple of solo films for both those franchises while still running current MCU films. Sprinkle in a few Easter eggs here and there about a Secret Wars style arc throughout the different franchises and then eventually merge everything in a future film.

[XanMan]

That will probably happen, but personally I don't want to see the X-Men recast except Wolverine and the killing off or exiling of Magneto and Xavier. The cast in X-Men: Apocalypse was stellar.

[meandi]

Would a cast that young fit in with the current crop of actors, though? It was fine casting them in the Fox lead movies seeing as how it looked like Fox was was willing to take the time for us to watch them grow up over however many movies. Throwing that cast in with the MCU cast wouldn’t feel right in my opinion.

[Samuel 'Plan]

I'd rather them recast X-Men completely, in honesty, and I say that as someone who may consider the X-Men franchise as my second favourite superhero franchise after Nolan's TDK trilogy. I think Stewart and McKellen, McAvoy and Fassbender have all been absolute revelations as Xavier and Magneto, and I adore their work much more than anything involving Wolverine (barring Logan, perhaps). But trying to cram the continuity together would be a nightmare, and serve to confuse ordinary movie goers. Besides, DOFP did well to marry the convoluted X-Men continuity together in a way that works nicely, so Dark Phoenix would be a nice place for the franchise to bow out, coming full circle with a (hopefully) better take on the arc they originally kicked off with.

Plus, the MCU has a different tone generally, and it's just too perfect an opportunity to wipe the slate clean with a fresh start to pass up in my mind. I'd re-cast, and I'd play on the real history of the comics - use the idea that there was once an original team of Cyclops, Jean Greay, Beast, Iceman and Angel some decades back or something. Have fun with it!

I also think AvX would be a great arc to move into once the Infinity one is done, though I admit I don't know much about it.

[meandi]

If you stay true to the comics, you’d have to do quite a few movies to even be able to lay the foundation for AvX. In a nutshell, it’s about the Phoenix coming back and the Avengers wanting to kill it once and for all and the X-Men aren’t trying to let that happen. Then you’ve got Wolverine who is on the fence because he has ties to both teams at that point, and yeah... way too much going on to even begin to try that story.

[Samuel 'Plan]

You say that, but don't forget it took ten years to build to Infinity War. With them now churning out three films a year, I'm sure you could lay the required foundation in the same span of time again!

[meandi]

Only if you neglected a lot of the other franchises and focused just on the X-Men. How many movies would it take to establish the mutants and form a connection with them to the point where it would be heart wrenching when Jean is consumed by the Phoenix Force and dies? Then there needs to be movies with the team dealing with the loss and the fallout from that. You’ve got to kill off Xavier at some point and have Cyclops take over and become the militant asshole that people hate, but he gets the job done. Then you’ve got to reintroduce the Phoenix Force. That seems like close to a decade of movies right there, and that doesn’t take into account all the other franchises.

Now, with all that said, I’d be all about a slightly watered down version like they did with Civil War. Almost something akin to BvS in which the teams come together in the third act to fight off the big bad.

[Samuel 'Plan]

Well yeah, that's it exactly - obviously they wouldn't be able to translate it like for like and I doubt they would. But you could comfortably distil it all I would imagine. I'm sure you could find a way to truncate it into a single Phoenix Force encounter, rather than one, a death, a resurrection and a second. I dunno, like I say I'm not familiar with the source material, it just strikes me as an inherently appropriate avenue to take given the recent franchise acquisition happening at a time it looks like the Infinity arc is closing.