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What AEW must NOT do with CM Punk

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  • #16
    "Everything around him"
    I would be happy to talk about this in further depth but you clearly aren't watching the product if you don't think Punk high profile, serious programs with "meaning".

    ​So far Punk has had a debut against one of AEW's future champions, Darby Allin, partnered with Sting in a tag program, had a heated rivalry with pretty much the heart of AEW, Eddie Kingston, an intense blood feud with one of the biggest prospects in all wrestling, MJF and is now in a championship feud with Adam Page who himself is in the form of his life in ring.

    Instead you picked a YouTube video of an unbroadcasted segment done purely to pop the live fans to represent what he has been doing. This kind of silliness has been done for years and is pretty much fan service.

    Point is that you try to position this as a good faith take when you know as well as I do that you've cherry picked something that is in no way true representation of what Punk has been doing when in fact his broadcast run has more or less filled out the rules you yourself outlined.
    Last edited by SirSam; 05-22-2022, 06:26 AM.


    • #17
      I can't speak for Benny here, but my guess is this isn't a bad faith take and is perhaps a misunderstanding of what that means. Doing this sort of thing after the show ends matters as much as what happens on the show, to me - and thinking there's a major distinction would be part of the problem (as you say, it's a common enough occurrence so hardly an AEW specific problem). As long as whomever believes that distinction is irrelevant, the faith is good. It's only bad faith if you know you're twisting something to make a point. But if you disagree on that part of the question, then it's not the same thing.

      "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."


      • #18
        Personally, I prefer to go with what the intention from the creator is as that should indicate to the audience how it should be received.

        A more simple example would be if a wrestling character was to be in an ad for something, should that be received as a cannon part of their presentation? No, it is intended as an ad.

        This is intended as a gag at the end of a show to pop the live crowd (as these kind of segments have been for years, see the famous video of the WWE locker room trying to get Taker to do a Booshirooni) it not being broadcast on TV indicates it is not part of the show, so I receive it as that. Bryan Danielson did his own take on it this week, faking that his leg was trapped between the ramp and the ring while Jon Moxley comically tried to push the two apart, he is not injured in the cannon of the show, it was done as a gag for the live crowd. More broadly wrestlers often have speeches that are done after the cameras are turned off which are presented in the same manner.

        More broadly if you want to take something that was intended by the creator to be one thing and intentionally recieve it as something else I would suggest you will have trouble engaging with any fiction, not just wrestling.


        • #19
          Well, the author/audience thing is obviously something that you are entitled to have your own opinions on. What you are saying here is really quite old fashioned now, though that doesn't mean it's without merits of course. What a hypocrite I would suddenly become if I were to suggest all old ideas were worthless! For the record, that would be bad faith.

          But that's got no bearing on whether or not the original point was made in good or bad faith because that would relate to what Benny believes, rather than what you believe.

          I believe even thinking about it in terms of canon, and that there's somehow an end to the story outside of which you can play around, is a mistake. Authorial intent changes nothing about that in wrestling, for me. But that's still my genuine feeling and therefore has to be good faith.

          Again I can't speak for Benny here. I wouldn't be surprised if it's similar, though.

          "The worst moron is the one too stupid to realise they're a moron."


          • #20
            The point I was making in the number 4 is “AEW gets eyes on them that quickly go away” because people will tune in to see CM Punk and be turned off by the shenanigans on the rest of the show. I agree with you on one of Punk’s angles, the one with MJF had gotten quite good. Seems MJF is good in everything I’ve seen him in, but the 10 or 15 minutes of that isn’t worth seeing the style of wrestling, characters, and storylines they have going on around those segments.

            the YouTube segment is a good example, because I was drawn to it by Punk and repelled by seeing that Danhausen they have going on.

            One thing I’ll add is Jimmy Valiant was a silly part of the universe he was in. I personally think he’s kind of annoying. But he did not betray the universe with his silliness. Barbarian saw Ron Garvin in that “Mrs Atlanta Lively” get up walking around the locker room, thought it was a real woman, and was making it clear to the others he was interested, and that’s a shoot. Lol.
            Last edited by Benjamin Button; 05-22-2022, 10:24 AM.
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