View Full Version : Overrated/Underrated
Gooner
06-30-2010, 03:12 PM
Thought i might start this topic as it was quite popular before the reset. Simple, name a wrestler (WWE, TNA, ROH, WCW, AWA....... any wrestler) and declare whether he/she was overrated or underrated. I'll start things with...
The new World Heavyweight Champion, Rey Mysterio.
MournDespana
06-30-2010, 06:33 PM
Overrated as a performer, underrated in his impact in the business.
Necro Butcher
Push. Don't know what that is. How about if it is someone of something we don't know we can just reply 'push' and it can be brought back later on.
Jay Lethal's mic skills
Ian Clark
06-30-2010, 07:08 PM
As I expect most of the answers in this thread to be, both. Underrated in that he's quite good on his own without the stupid gimmicks, overrated in that the gimmicks are overrated.
Edge
Irishsara
06-30-2010, 07:35 PM
overrated. In Ring Skills, overrated, promo skills overrated, look? overrated. He got over because he was right place in the right time.
Lance Storm
Ouch on Edge. I'm going against the grain and say that he was overrated. His wrestling skills were nothing fantastic. Solid ring worker. His mic skills outside of his "Un-American" days with each promo starting off with him saying "If I could be serious for a MINUTE......." really didn't grab me either.
The NXT invasion angle.
StormDragonZ
06-30-2010, 07:54 PM
Too soon to say about the NeXus, but right now, totally underrated. Only going to get better for the members.
Over/Under: The Undertaker's Wrestlemania Streak
RatedDAL
06-30-2010, 08:02 PM
Overrated, the streak is essentially 5 or 6 years long becuz before that nobody was booking towards Taker going undefeated at Mania in his entire career, wrestlemania has always been about the faces and epic clashes. The only 2 times he won as a heel was starting out against snuka and flair, neither guy going over taker wouldve been the right call and they were mid card matches anyway.
The new WWE Gimmick Themed PPV's
EPICALLY overrated. Worst idea ever.
WWE Hall Of Fame
Gooner
06-30-2010, 09:50 PM
At the moment all it is is a ring on the finger and a plaque. Overrated, there are so many people missing in the HoF and there are so many people that don't deserve to be in it anyway.
Attitude Era
Ian Clark
06-30-2010, 10:07 PM
Overrated, but still awesome. It would've been the best era in wrestling unquestionably if not for the fact that a lot of the wrestling was extremely subpar. Inexplicable, as the wrestlers involved were all supremely capable.
Necro Butcher
I took the liberty of checking out the guy to see who he was. IMO, a poor man's Cactus Jack. Overrated.
Extreme-style wrestling
Ian Clark
06-30-2010, 10:44 PM
Almost-completely-accurately rated
Hell in a Cell matches
Since it's inception I've only seen two good ones and those were the first two. So I say just a tad bit more overrated than extreme-style matches.
WWE
StormDragonZ
07-01-2010, 10:55 PM
The WWE is neither, to be honest. They are overrated because they use Guest Hosts to boost ratings when it actually hasn't done much in the last four months or so AKA publicity stunt. They are underrated because there are still people out there who say "it's fake" stuff and don't even bother to try watching it in the first place.
Over/Under: Smackdown's Ring Announcer Tony Chimel
RatedDAL
07-01-2010, 11:00 PM
I like Chimel so i'll say underrated but I'm not really in touch with how other wrestling fans feel about him. Can't see anyway he's overrated.
Rapid pushes into the world title picture aka Sheamus/Swagger
Overrated. I can understand rapid pushes if it is what the fans DEMAND (such as the case with Goldberg). However, no one really cared much about either of these guys so to just take the world championships and slap them on these two with so many other deserving WWE superstars that have paid their dues in SPADES turns out to do more harm than good. It's a slap in the face to aforementioned dues-paid wrestlers whom either have not had title runs or short-lived title runs, it's a slap in the face to WWE fans. It further devalues the level of prestige (if there is any left at all) of both world titles, and it causes irreparable damage to those two guys. When you start off at the top you have nowhere else to go but down and unless WWE has plans to keep both Shemus and Swagger in the world title rotation for years and years to come both guys' careers are in serious trouble.
Over/under
Official theme songs for PPVs for the past 7 years.
Glacier
07-02-2010, 01:24 AM
As far as the theme songs go, it's hit and miss. There are some that I had in my library beforehand, some that I put in my library after hearing them, and some that I just hated.
Raw Guest Hosts.
MournDespana
07-02-2010, 02:35 AM
I hate to say it, but underrated. I mean, yes most suck, but you expect that. So when they don't (Wayne Brady, Bob Barker, Shaq) It is a worthy event. So as I said based on expectation, underrated.
The Legacy of both ECWs.
Gooner
07-02-2010, 07:26 AM
Original: Underrated, unfortunately for them, they existed when WWE and WCW were at it's best.
WWE ECW: Push, I think it served it's purpose (elevated a few stars, like CM Punk, John Morrison, Jack Swagger...)
Vince McMahon as an on-screen character
swantonbomb780
07-08-2010, 09:53 AM
neither he is really good on the mic and the fueds hs is in are normanly good but i wouldn't he is underated
the mitb ladder match
FoonZeeS
07-08-2010, 11:57 AM
If it was kept as a Mania exclusive it would be fine, but now it's over-rated.
O/U: Roderick Strong
Gooner
07-08-2010, 03:36 PM
Underrated, could become huge in the big leagues.
Oh go on then, William Regal
ChrisBear
07-08-2010, 03:42 PM
You knew I'd pounce on this...too easy!
Chris Hero.
Push. Not sure who he is so bring him back later.
Vince McMahon's broadcasting skills.
FoonZeeS
07-08-2010, 05:20 PM
You knew I'd pounce on this...too easy!
Chris Hero.
I think he's under-rated. I love me some Chris Hero, though I haven't really seen anything of his lately.
I'm not gonna do another one because no one here can answer my questions.
HBK911
07-08-2010, 06:44 PM
Push. Not sure who he is so bring him back later.
Vince McMahon's broadcasting skills.
Depends on the era.
I personally feel, that the right COLOR commentator was needed for Vince to be at his best.
When Vince had the King or Jesse next to him, he was great.
When he had Bruno or JR next to him, he WASN'T so great.
But if I HAD to pick, I'd say he's underrated as a broadcaster.
Stone Cold Steve Austin's impact on the business: Overrated or Underrated?
(note, I said Stone Cold. Not Stunning Steve)
Underrated. I don't think people really understood just how close the WWF came from going under in the mid 1990's. Not only did Austin 3:16 save the WWF from going under when WCW was at it's zenith, but it ushered in the Attitude Era which as I recently stated in another post took Vince McMahon from borderline bankruptcy to billionaire status. Also take into account that because of his spinal injury Austin could not even wrestle for most of the second half of 1997 yet his presence alone was enough to keep fans tuning in.
Over/Under: Hatred of John Cena
StormDragonZ
07-08-2010, 10:13 PM
It's simply Overrated. It was vastly noticed by many with his "Five Moves of Doom" and the pinnacle was his match with RVD at One Night Stand 2006 when the entire crowd was 400% against him. Nowadays, we see dueling chants and the "hatred" is just typical now. No matter how you look at it, Cena going heel will only flip-flop how the crowd handles it now. If he stays face, this hatred shall continue. Ultimately, it's overrated.
Over/Under: The "Evolution" Stable of Flair, HHH, Batista & Orton.
MournDespana
07-08-2010, 10:34 PM
this is a tough one, part of me wants to say overrated. The ending of the group was handled so badly (with the Orton turn) and it almost cost RKO some of his baddass credibility from his Legend Killer gimmick.
The turn however by Bats was done extremely well. The group was also able to make Flair credible again and had some great heel tactics that made us yearn for the old days where there was always a stale at the top of the card and was able to make you hate them because they were that good and would rub it in your face with the amount of gold.
In the end, the spin-offs of RKO and Bats leaves me easily with a resounding Underrated.
U or O: The impact of the Survivor Series PPV
Depends on what era. if you are talking about the model laid down for the first Survivor Series when you had 5 on 5 matches both male and female. You had a mid-card SS match, Woman's SS match, Tag Team- SS match, and a main event SS match then I say EPICALLY underrated. If you are using the current model where SS has no real distinction from any other PPV except for one or two SS matches being treated as a gimmick match sort of like "Hardcore rules" or "Casket Match" or something along those lines, then it was vastly overrated.
The Ultimate Warrior's WWF run from 1987-1992
HBK911
07-08-2010, 11:38 PM
Depends on what era. if you are talking about the model laid down for the first Survivor Series when you had 5 on 5 matches both male and female. You had a mid-card SS match, Woman's SS match, Tag Team- SS match, and a main event SS match then I say EPICALLY underrated. If you are using the current model where SS has no real distinction from any other PPV except for one or two SS matches being treated as a gimmick match sort of like "Hardcore rules" or "Casket Match" or something along those lines, then it was vastly overrated.
The Ultimate Warrior's WWF run from 1987-1992
I agree @ SSeries.
The ORIGINAL format was NEW, innovative, and INTERESTING (@ the time)
As you said, MID-CARD, Tag Team, Womens, Main Event, all 5 on 5 (or 10 on 10 with the tag teams) GREAT stuff.
The problem is, as time went ON, the FORMAT changed, the CONCEPT was abandoned, and even when they WOULD have the 5 on 5 matches, they wouldn't be NEARLY as INTERESTING as they were in the late 80s.
To answer the Warrior question though...
My FIRST instinct was to say "underrated."
Regardless of the prick Warrior ended up becoming, his CHARACTER @ the time was HOT for the WWF.
Here was a guy, who, even in the MID-CARD, got a Hogan-esque crowd response.
The kids LOVED The Ultimate Warrior back then, so I think we have to give credit where it's due.
Now, I would NEVER give him HOGAN (80s) type credit, because he was NOT HOGAN.
Therefore, AS I'M TYPING, and THINKING, I would have to CHANGE my answer from UNDERRATED, to SLIGHTLY OVERRATED.
Why?
Because.
Even though he DID make a HUGE IMPACT, the WWF still could have survived WITHOUT him.
Overrated or Underrated: Bad News Brown's feud with Macho Man Randy Savage
I'm ashamed to say this but I don't even remember Randy Savage's feud with Bad News Brown. So I'm gonna go underrated. Sticking with Federation Era feuds...
O/U
Rugged Ronnie Garvin and Greg "The Hammer" Valentine
HBK911
07-09-2010, 03:57 AM
I'm ashamed to say this but I don't even remember Randy Savage's feud with Bad News Brown. So I'm gonna go underrated. Sticking with Federation Era feuds...
O/U
Rugged Ronnie Garvin and Greg "The Hammer" Valentine
You don't remember the Bad News feud? It was in late 88, and very early 89 (it ended abruptly after Macho turned heel)
Here's how it started though, if you want a quick refresher, and have a few mins to watch.
Go to the 1:45 mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwDV7hw7quA
LOL @ Brother Love taunting Tunney after Bad News roughs him up LOL.
As for Garvin & Hammer, it was decent for what it WAS. I remember the feud from 89 (Garvin as referee, then was reinstated, etc.) It was cool, but it was far from "great" in my opinion. It was a nice little mid card feud though.
I can't say over OR under though, in terms of rating it, because...
1: People don't TALK about it enough to be OVERRATED
2: It wasn't GOOD enough to be UNDERRATED lol
I have one for you though....
O or U: The Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels Iron Man Match from WM12.
ChrisBear
07-09-2010, 09:57 AM
Overrated. I enjoyed it, still do but there have been better hour long matches both before and after.
Over or Under
Layla's titties...
Tarrasque
07-09-2010, 11:41 AM
Layla's titties...
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27029/502480-515_large.jpg
I would have to say... Sorry, I got distracted. Underrated? Just because people don't talk about them enough.
Armageddon Hell in a Cell match?
I think HITC has been brought up already. I say overrated. There have only been a few memorable ones.
O/U WWE Women's division
ChrisBear
07-09-2010, 12:39 PM
Overrated in terms of entertainment. I'm all for sex sells...
Over or under...
The Spanish announce table.
Overrated. After awhile it became a running joke. Sort of like the Harlem Globetrotters playing the Washington Generals all the time.
Bill Goldberg's WCW run.
Gooner
07-09-2010, 03:51 PM
Underrated. He got me into wrestling, so i might be a bit bias; but there is now denying that he was the ONLY WCW guy that could achieve reactions a la Stone Cold in WWF. Sure, WCW milked it way too much (the fake chants, the no selling, even the streak...), but he defined WCW for a year or so. He was the most over WCW wrestler in their history. No, he wasn't great in the ring, but since when did that matter?
Over/Under: Royal Rumble surprise entrances
Tarrasque
07-09-2010, 05:39 PM
I think HITC has been brought up already. I say overrated. There have only been a few memorable ones.
I was specifically talking about the Armageddon Hell in a Cell match.
HBK911
07-09-2010, 05:53 PM
Underrated. He got me into wrestling, so i might be a bit bias; but there is now denying that he was the ONLY WCW guy that could achieve reactions a la Stone Cold in WWF. Sure, WCW milked it way too much (the fake chants, the no selling, even the streak...), but he defined WCW for a year or so. He was the most over WCW wrestler in their history. No, he wasn't great in the ring, but since when did that matter?
Over/Under: Royal Rumble surprise entrances
I say under.
Only because, I've ALWAYS enjoyed the anticipation of "who's coming next" in the Rumble matches.
Now sure, sometimes you can GUESS who's coming next, but for the most part, it's always exciting as the clock goes down.
I WILL say that the "Who's Going To Wrestlemania" WINNER of the Rumble match thing is Overrated, but the "who's coming out next" thing is UNDERRATED. I love it.
Over or Under: The Rock's promos/promo skills
jmlarson
07-09-2010, 07:01 PM
Underrated. Go back and watch his promos on YouTube. I did not appreciate him enough when he was around. He often has me cracking up hours later thinking about what he said in the clips. Even though a lot of it was scripted I'm sure he ad libbed a ton.
Cruiserweight Divisions
Underrated. The Cruiser-weight division was invaluable for WCW in it's 83 weeks run at the top. WWE needs to bring it back.
Stone Cold Steve Austin's mic skills.
Glacier
07-09-2010, 07:49 PM
Vastly Underrated. It was one of the best parts of Smackdown from 02-06. Even in WCW, it was under-utilized.
ECW version of Raven.
SkredlitheOgre
07-09-2010, 07:50 PM
Underrated. I thought Stone Cold was awesome on the mic. He could talk and talk without having to always resort to three or four catchphrases.
Over/Under: Perry Saturn.
Edit: Damn. Ninja'd.
ECW's Raven. Personally, I thought he seemed like a douche, but his gimmick was revolutionary, along with the hardcore stylings. Honestly, I think he should have hung up his boots a few years ago, but I think that legacy is well remembered by a lot of people.
Over/Under: Perry Saturn.
On ECW Raven, it can be argued that C.M. Punk's current gimmick and the SES is not a rip-off but this generation's version of Raven's ECW gimmick. I'll say as much a he meant to ECW and how underused he was in the WWF in WCW I'll say he's underrated.
Perry Saturn underrated. Great ring technician that again was burden with ridiculous gimmicks in the WWF and WCW.
WWF Commissioners.
richievdm
07-09-2010, 08:22 PM
overrated...they never really did anything in my opinion..slaughter..hbk...william regal...just an on screen title...like the guest host gimmick now.the only commissioner that did his job was mick foley.
Matt Hardy
I think Matt Hardy is kind of a "meh" guy. There was a period in 2002-03 where I felt there was a window to push Matt Hardy to that next level and WWE kinda dropped the ball. He's been stuck in limbo for the past 7-8 years. I'm gonna say "push". It's hard to gauge him.
Jeff Hardy
Glacier
07-09-2010, 08:55 PM
Overrated. He's a spot monkey who only gets pops from children because he wears bright colors.
King of the Mountain match.
Double Murder Josh
07-10-2010, 02:25 AM
Overrated. Anyone who cares about this buffoonish gimmick match is a TNA mark. If the concept of this match was any good, the WWE would've stole it by now. The fact is, in the list of Top 20 Gimmick Matches ever devised, the KOTM Match doesn't rank, therefore, I say, it's overrated. I'm not just saying that because I'm not a huge TNA fan either - in fact, I think TNA has come up with a few good gimmick matches (Feast or Fired, Lethal Lockdown, Ultimate X), but the King of the Mountain match is not one of them.
William Regal (by the IWC)
HBK911
07-10-2010, 02:40 AM
Overrated. Anyone who cares about this buffoonish gimmick match is a TNA mark. If the concept of this match was any good, the WWE would've stole it by now. The fact is, in the list of Top 20 Gimmick Matches ever devised, the KOTM Match doesn't rank, therefore, I say, it's overrated. I'm not just saying that because I'm not a huge TNA fan either - in fact, I think TNA has come up with a few good gimmick matches (Feast or Fired, Lethal Lockdown, Ultimate X), but the King of the Mountain match is not one of them.
William Regal (by the IWC)
Regal is like a "God" to the IWC. So yes, I'd say he's overrated in that sense.
Shawn Michaels. Over or Underrated?
DaBadGuy
07-10-2010, 04:42 AM
HBK is underrated. He's the best wrestler since Ric Flair (at least the best American wrestler), just look at his ridiculous list of great matches. My Mount Rushmore of wrestlers would be 1. Flair 2. HBK 3. Steamboat 4. Savage.
O/U: Tag Team wrestling
HBK911
07-10-2010, 05:31 AM
HBK is underrated. He's the best wrestler since Ric Flair (at least the best American wrestler), just look at his ridiculous list of great matches. My Mount Rushmore of wrestlers would be 1. Flair 2. HBK 3. Steamboat 4. Savage.
O/U: Tag Team wrestling
It depends.
If you mean WWE's current tag team DIVISION, it's OVERRATED.
If you mean tag team wrestling as a WHOLE, it's UNDERRATED.
The mid-late 80s had a GREAT tag team scene in both the WWF, and the NWA.
Realistically though, it's been so long since WWE has really HAD a legitimate tag team division, that a lot of us don't even NOTICE it anymore because we're so used to it.
So maybe it IS overrated.
O/U: The WWF's Attitude Era?
NSF on Fire
07-10-2010, 11:12 AM
Underrated,
especially when you look at the brand today. The Attitude Era was innovative, creative and showed what competitive booking can do for the sports entertainment industry.
Side Note: Tag team wrestling is really neither underrated nor overrated....it's just undervalued
O / U: Evolution
This was brought up earlier. I say overrated.
The nWo
brandonthegreat
07-10-2010, 11:50 AM
Underrated! So what if he doesnt have mic skills. That MoFo can wrestle his ass off.
brandonthegreat
07-10-2010, 11:56 AM
underrated. So what if he doesnt have mic skills. That MoFo can wrestle and put the best match on any nite.
brandonthegreat
07-10-2010, 12:01 PM
Edge is wayyyyy overrated. He only puts on a good match when there's a gimmick involved. He wrestles like a face and has a face's entrance music. That character needs to be re-evaluated. He's just a rip off of the Attitude Era HHH (marrying the boss and always cheating to gain or keep the belt.)
brandonthegreat
07-10-2010, 12:04 PM
Overrated. Those guys dont even know how to wrestle. They just closeline ppl and thats wat u call beating somebody up??!!! LAME!!!
brandonthegreat
07-10-2010, 12:08 PM
I'd say the streak is overrated b/c so what if he's undeafeated at WM, I mean he could go undeafeated at other events too. Then he's rarely won championships at WM so i think thats y it doesnt mean much
brandonthegreat
07-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Overraretd!!!! Thats garbage. Thats not wrestling
HBK911
07-10-2010, 07:02 PM
This was brought up earlier. I say overrated.
The nWo
Underrated.
The original nWo, with Hogan, Hall, and Nash was great.
It was new, fresh & exciting to American fans, because they attacked EVERYBODY, not just faces like some of the PREVIOUS stables.
Then, when they added the Giant, they were even MORE dominant.
Having DiBiase to back them (as "Trillionare Ted") made sense as well.
Hell, we even THOUGHT they had STING for that split second when he got out the limo (before we realized it was a fake)
But once they started adding various low/mid card wrestlers, it got extremely watered down.
Rotunda was a basic bum by that point, so was Bubba. It was just a waste.
Damn near 20 guys in ONE heel faction/stable. It got dull.
So, I'd say:
ORIGINAL nWo (in 96) = UNDERRATED (Classic!)
nWo Wolfpack (in '98) = OVERRATED
nWo Hollywood (in '98) = OVERRATED
nWo ELITE (in '99) = UNDERRATED (resembled the original)
nWo silver 2000 (in '00) = UNDERRATED (until they fucked it up by adding the Harris Boys)
nWo RETURN (in wwf in 2002) = UNDERRATED at FIRST. Overrated after losing Hogan, and adding XPac & Big Show (and underrated AGAIN after adding HBK! lol)
Over or Under = SUNNY!
Nice break down of the nWo.
I'm gonna say Tammy Sitch was OVERRATED. Yeah she was cute (and still is) but she was really a dime a dozen hindsight being 20/20. She cut the mold for what a current WWE Diva is. Before her women actually carried themselves with class and dignity in both fedrations. Even the heel women. Now it is just Skankfest U.S.A. ECW women obviously deserve credit for that as well.
D-Generation X
Overrated. Bah gawd, sooooo overrated.
SmackDown!'s entire ten-plus years taken as a whole.
Tough to say. The first few years of Smackdown were had it going on. However like WWE in general, Smackdown fell apart after Wrestlemania XIX and was not nearly as interesting and it has gotten progressively worse year after year. Gonna have to say Overrated on this one.
Federation Era weekends shows like WWF Superstars Of Wrestling, WWF Wrestling Challenge, and All American Wrestling.
HBK911
07-11-2010, 10:58 PM
Tough to say. The first few years of Smackdown were had it going on. However like WWE in general, Smackdown fell apart after Wrestlemania XIX and was not nearly as interesting and it has gotten progressively worse year after year. Gonna have to say Overrated on this one.
Federation Era weekends shows like WWF Superstars Of Wrestling, WWF Wrestling Challenge, and All American Wrestling.
Those shows are UNDERRATED.
Anybody who watched back then, I'm sure liked (and can appreciate) those shows.
WWF Superstars: Vince McMahon & Jesse Ventura brought you all the angles in the late 80s.
Wrestling Challenge: Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby Heenan gave you all the other action.
All-American Wrestling: Mean Gene Okerlund used to host that, but so did a few others I believe.
Either way, those shows brought us a lot.
I looked forward to em every weekend.
Rick Rude Hit On Jake The Snake's Wife
Outlaw Ron Bass bloodied Brutus Beefcake with those spurs
Honky Tonk Man began his record long IC-Title reign
The Million Dollar Man humiliated people with his gimmick
The Mr. Perfect vignettes were a thing of beauty
The Mega Bucks (DiBiase & Andre) attacked Macho Man
Bossman & Slick attacked Hogan on Brother Love
Bad News Brown assaulted (WWF President) Jack Tunney
Bobby Heenan "sells" Hercules to Ted DiBiase as his "slave"
Ric Flair made his debut and BRUTALIZED Roddy Piper
Undertaker stuffed The Ultimate Warrior in the casket
Macho Man proposed to Miss Elizabeth
The Rockers split up on The Barber Shop (HBK was born!)
There's tons more, I'm sure, but those are just the few I remember off the top of my head.
Over or Under: Hogan vs. Andre from WM3
MournDespana
07-12-2010, 05:10 AM
Over-fucking-rated. First off, the beginning was done okay, but when looking back at it, was a little awkward. The whole "is it over" thing with the body slam attempt makes me cringe every time I see it. Then there was the headbutt botch with the ring post. I personally informed the guy from Botchamanis about that move. Then the back drop on the outside that looked like a man riding down a slide. ugh.
Lets look at things honestly, it was the main event. The match was highly anticipated and was as significant as any WWF/E WM main event, if not the most significant (arguments can be made for WM I or WM VI also).
Andre was nothing like he was in the mid to late 70s. The great man was doing the right thing, putting over the big star in the biggest match of his life. But his imobility was horrid to watch. When knowing how much longer he had left in the world it almost makes me upset knowing that he put his best effort and it looked so bad.
Hogan... well he was never known as a wrestlers wrestler. I do like several of his matches from the era. He did know ring psychology as well as anyone. So did Andre. The fact that 90000+ people came to see them was a testimant of its importance. It put many people into the 80s wrestling frenzy even if they were holding out. But, as a maych itself, it was no where close to the best match ever as people have put it up as. It wasn't even the best match on the ard (Machio/Steamboat). Hell, it wasn't even the most fun match on the card (Piper vs Adonis was). And sorry, but the best squash of a man on the card was not done by Andre at the beginning of the match, it was done by King Kong Bundy to Little Beaver.
I am sorry but the main event of the card must hold up for more then one 3 second clip (The bodyslam). The importance of the match remains, but the pedestal it sits on is unwarranted.
O or U: Wrestle Mania 9
I'm gonna go underrated on this one. Wrestlemania IX had a stacked and all the matches were entertaining. Obviously the matches that stand out for me are...
HBK Vs. Tatanka
Narcissist Lex Luger Vs. Mr. Perfect
Undertaker VS. Giant Gonzalaz
Crush VS. Doink the Clown
Mega Maniacs VS. Money Inc.
Bret Hart VS. Yokozuna
All those matches were good and had classic, memorable moments. I also thought that having a 'themed' Wrestlemania at Caesar's Palace was fresh and innovative. I hope they go back there to do another one day.
O/U. The feud between Savio Vega and Stone Cold Steve Austin.
drchannard
07-12-2010, 01:49 PM
Underrated -
It started out in typical old fashion where there was a time limit draw but there seemed to be a sense of visciousness about their matches that made me think that those two really didn't like each other. And honestly, people always point to the King of the Ring being the birthplace of "Stone Cold" but in reality the ending of this fued got him out of stupid Ringmaster gimmick and allowed him to create his own persona.
O/U:
The Montreal Screwjob
Austin/Vega cont.
Not only that, they were already calling him 'Stone Cold' Steve Austin by the time WM12 came around. I always liked feuds where guys can work stiff to give a viciousness like you said.
The Montreal Screwjob at first I was going to say overrated, but the EMP of that blast reached out and effected so many different things. Granted, Austin 3:16 was hot at the time and his character was well on it's way, the Austin/McMahon feud was sort of a spin-off angle from Montreal. Up until then Vince McMahon was looked at as a face and in a positive light. However once he gave the infamous 'Bret Screwed Bret' promo it solidified him as a heel and gave Austin the foil he needed. I dare say that it also gave HBK more of a heel edge than he had before because from that point on he always felt he was on the defense from fans on the whole situation.
Overrated in terms of the fact that both parties were in the wrong and it wasn't nearly as big of a deal as their egos made it out to be, underrated because of the success that came out from the angle. So I have to say 'Push".
SummerSlam '98 - Triple H VS The Rock - IC Title Ladder Match
StormDragonZ
07-12-2010, 03:34 PM
SummerSlam '98 - Triple H VS The Rock - IC Title Ladder Match
Terribly underrated. Personally, my 3rd favorite Ladder Match of all time (if you exclude all MitB Ladder Matches). Strangely enough, this match went longer than the main event between Undertaker & Austin. One of the few times I remember the Spanish Announce Table being destroyed before the year 2000.
Over/Under: Kane's role in the 2001 Royal Rumble.
Gooner
07-12-2010, 04:03 PM
I'm guessing this is the match where Kane eliminated 11 people (apologies if i am incorrect). Underrated. That match was the one Kane should have won... I've always thought the best way for Kane to rise to the top once again would be by winning RR.
O/U: The Rumble as an acomplishment of a wrestlers career
I'm not sure if I understand the question. Are you saying the magnitude of winning the Royal Rumble on a wrestler's career? In that case I say underrated because there are few things more exciting than seeing someone win a chance to go to Wrestlemania by winning the Royal Rumble. Then again, I think one of the most definitive moments of Ric Flair's career was to last for over 60 minutes against possibly the greatest assemblage of wrestling talent in one ring in professional wrestling history to win the most coveted title in the sports history at the 1992 Royal Rumble. He was in tears after that match. So I say Underrated.
Saturday Night's Main Event (federation era)
HBK911
07-12-2010, 05:22 PM
I'm not sure if I understand the question. Are you saying the magnitude of winning the Royal Rumble on a wrestler's career? In that case I say underrated because there are few things more exciting than seeing someone win a chance to go to Wrestlemania by winning the Royal Rumble. Then again, I think one of the most definitive moments of Ric Flair's career was to last for over 60 minutes against possibly the greatest assemblage of wrestling talent in one ring in professional wrestling history to win the most coveted title in the sports history at the 1992 Royal Rumble. He was in tears after that match. So I say Underrated.
Saturday Night's Main Event (federation era)
Underrated.
Call me a "die hard old school fan" if you want to, but I used to LOVE SNME as a kid.
It was the only time on FREE TV, that you could see an ENTIRE SHOW featuring Stars vs. Stars.
(Titles even changed hands!)
All the other syndicated/weekend shows featured squash matches (which was cool)
But SNME at that time gave you something "special" once every 2 or 3 months.
You got to see all your favorite stars against OTHER stars, and not just JOBBERS.
Hell, even HOGAN wrestled on SNME, and he hardly EVER wrestled on TV.
Add that with Jesse Ventura & Vince McMahon on commentary, and you have a winner!
Hall/HBK WM10 Ladder Match
I'm gonna piss a lot of people off with this one. I say overrated. It wasn't the first ladder match in WWF history as it was billed, and the Bret Hart/HBK Ladder Match in 1992 I thought was better. Now, I don't want to devalue the quality of the match or it's importance. It is definitely one of the better ladder matches of all time, but of all the ladder matches we have seen in ECW and the WWF/e since then can you really say it stands out in your mind that much? I mean, part of the reason of the real life heat between Shawn Michaels and The Ro....*ahem*.....excuse me....Dwayne Johnson is because HBK made an off hand comment that he and Razor's ladder match was better than the Rock/HHH ladder match and SS '98, which is just not true. Not only was the Rock/HHH a better ladder match in every category, but it carried far more importance as presenting the future main eventers of the WWF in Triple H and The Rock (whom would have to carry the company in the absence of SCSA due to injury).
So yes, I say WAY overrated.
Wrestlemania III - Savage - Steamboat
HBK911
07-12-2010, 06:36 PM
I'm gonna piss a lot of people off with this one. I say overrated. It wasn't the first ladder match in WWF history as it was billed, and the Bret Hart/HBK Ladder Match in 1992 I thought was better. Now, I don't want to devalue the quality of the match or it's importance. It is definitely one of the better ladder matches of all time, but of all the ladder matches we have seen in ECW and the WWF/e since then can you really say it stands out in your mind that much? I mean, part of the reason of the real life heat between Shawn Michaels and The Ro....*ahem*.....excuse me....Dwayne Johnson is because HBK made an off hand comment that he and Razor's ladder match was better than the Rock/HHH ladder match and SS '98, which is just not true. Not only was the Rock/HHH a better ladder match in every category, but it carried far more importance as presenting the future main eventers of the WWF in Triple H and The Rock (whom would have to carry the company in the absence of SCSA due to injury).
So yes, I say WAY overrated.
Wrestlemania III - Savage - Steamboat
I was waiting for this one.
It's very hard to say though.
I can't say OVERRATED because it WAS VERY GOOD.
I can't say UNDERRATED because people talk about it all the time in terms of being "The Greatest"
So I don't think it's overrated OR underrated.
I think it's just as good as everybody SAYS it is.
Now, if I HAD to choose (and I can't BELIEVE I'm SAYING this) I'd say overrated.
Savage/Steamboat from Wrestlemania III was an AMAZING match. (Commentary included)
But there have been LOTS of amazing matches over the years.
So to say that Savage/Steamboat was The GREATEST, we'd have to analyze why it's better than every OTHER incredible match that has ever occurred.
So yes. Overrated. But not by much.
Next up: Test
Savage/Steamboat cont.
My reason for why I think it's the greatest because with all the great matches there have been over the years at Wrestlemania I cannot think of one match that was absolutely perfect in every single category other than that one. In every other match something is lacking or there was something that was not necessary involved. For over 30 minutes Savage and Steamboat wrestled at a constant pace. NO REST PERIODS. It was like watching a match on VHS and hitting 'fast-forward' three or four times in the match. It had drama, great psychology, great build up, great technical wrestling, great highspots, great chain-wrestling, great crowd heat, great commentary, and a great finish. The only possible negative I could throw at it (and this is a stretch) is that it was revealed that parts of the match were choreographed. That works for ME. They need to choreograph more matches and ad lib where necessary.
I understand why people feel it's overrated or why some people may choose Bret/HBK WM12 or Austin/Rock WM X-7 over it, but I have to echo the comments made by the greatest commentator of all time the late GREAT Gorilla Monsoon. "You'll never see a match better than that if you live to be 100." I'm still waiting...
Test was overrated. Just a smaller version of Kevin Nash whom I was never impressed with. The highpoint of his career obviously was his angle with Stephanie McMahon. After that fell apart he just had not real direction. It wasn't like he didn't get chances. WWE kept bringing him back over and over again, he just never had that "it" factor to separate from the pack.
Clash of The Champions
HBK911
07-12-2010, 10:10 PM
Savage/Steamboat cont.
My reason for why I think it's the greatest because with all the great matches there have been over the years at Wrestlemania I cannot think of one match that was absolutely perfect in every single category other than that one. In every other match something is lacking or there was something that was not necessary involved. For over 30 minutes Savage and Steamboat wrestled at a constant pace. NO REST PERIODS. It was like watching a match on VHS and hitting 'fast-forward' three or four times in the match. It had drama, great psychology, great build up, great technical wrestling, great highspots, great chain-wrestling, great crowd heat, great commentary, and a great finish. The only possible negative I could throw at it (and this is a stretch) is that it was revealed that parts of the match were choreographed. That works for ME. They need to choreograph more matches and ad lib where necessary.
I understand why people feel it's overrated or why some people may choose Bret/HBK WM12 or Austin/Rock WM X-7 over it, but I have to echo the comments made by the greatest commentator of all time the late GREAT Gorilla Monsoon. "You'll never see a match better than that if you live to be 100." I'm still waiting...
Test was overrated. Just a smaller version of Kevin Nash whom I was never impressed with. The highpoint of his career obviously was his angle with Stephanie McMahon. After that fell apart he just had not real direction. It wasn't like he didn't get chances. WWE kept bringing him back over and over again, he just never had that "it" factor to separate from the pack.
Clash of The Champions
@ Savage/Steamboat: I STILL haven't seen a match BETTER than that, but I have seen matches that were (nearly) equally as enjoyable to WATCH.
I will say that I do NOT thing that Bret/Shawn from WM12 was even CLOSE to being as good as Savage/Steamboat from WM3.
Austin/Rock from WM17 came close though, as did Austin/Bret from WM13.
That's why it was so tough for me to even SAY "overrated" (you saw me say NEITHER, initially) but I have seen lots of great matches.
Oh, and on a side note, Savage/Steamboat only went about 18 mins from bell to bell.
@ Test: I agree @ being overrated.
@ Clash Of The Champions: It depends.
The early Clash specials were UNDERRATED. They were like the old Saturday Night's Main Event.
But as time went on, they kind of lost their appeal (since Nitro was around, etc.) kind of wasn't as special.
So, early Clashes = underrated.
Later Clashes = overrated.
Next up: Owen Hart.
No brainer. A BIG Underrated. In some ways he was more talented than Bret. Just never got the push he deserved.
Valets
HBK911
07-13-2010, 12:15 AM
No brainer. A BIG Underrated. In some ways he was more talented than Bret. Just never got the push he deserved.
Valets
Ehh, Overrated.
I mean, it's cool seeing Maryse in a dress. But other than that, what purpose does she serve?
Back in the day, they meant more (Who wanted to see Marc Mero without Sable next to him?)
The Intercontinental Title
Gooner
07-13-2010, 10:14 AM
It's taken a bashing over the years (Santino double champion? mmm...), but overall, underrated. It's really gotten better since Rey won it at WM25. Plus just look at the history, everyone who matters has held that title.
U/O: Blood in WWE
Juicing has always been overrated in my opinion no matter what the situation is. It's always more shocking and carries more impact when cut happen by accident. For instance, I'm not sure if Cena juiced or his cut was authentic last night on RAW, but to me it looked like an accidental cut and made the situation feel even more emotionally charged. Seeing your own blood just does something to you.
Tony Schivonie
Gooner
07-14-2010, 05:51 PM
Underrated (i have a feeling he isn't rated highly at all). He was by no means terrible, although prone to act dumb and call the action incorrectly. I prefer him to Michael Cole...
U/O: Weapons
Epically overrated. By in the day when someone pulled out a steel chair it was a traumatic experience. Now in the post Attitude era what weapon short of military arms haven't we seen in wrestling? That shirt has been stretched completely out of shape.
Hollywood Blondes
makeo
07-14-2010, 08:25 PM
Hollywood Blondes
Underrated, and they barely scraped the surface of the potential they had.
Many people like to say Owen Hart would/should/could have been massive, but for events. Possibly true, but it wouldn't compare to how big Pillman would have been.
Pillman and Austin were the mutt's nuts.
Equally easy question. Terry Funk.
Again, I would probably anger a lot of people with this one. Overrated in the 80's, underrated in the 90s. I never really saw anything from terry Funk outside of his 1989 feud with flair that impressed me all that much. People kept talking about how great he was but there wasn't enough source material for that assumption.
His contribution to wrestling in the 90s however was invaluable. Especially ECW. For all intents and purposes was the originator of 'hardcore'. It was his presence, leadership, and ability to put others over that helped ECW become what is was and indirectly enhancing both the WWF and WCW. Which leads me into the next question.
Wrestlemania XIV
Dark-Crusader
07-14-2010, 09:02 PM
With this particular Mania' being the one that "sparked" and officially "began" the Attitude Era, I would say underrated. Triple vs. Owen Hart of course didn't turn out like I thought (Owen should've gotten the W) and Cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie in a hellacious match with the New Age Outlaws. Including an underrated match in The Rock and Shamrock, it was one of the better manias' of the decade. The Tyson swerve was obvious as all hell but still an entertaining match with Austin and HBK nonetheless.
U/O: The Radicalz Invasion in 2000 of WWE/F
makeo
07-14-2010, 09:53 PM
Again, I would probably anger a lot of people with this one. Overrated in the 80's, underrated in the 90s. I never really saw anything from terry Funk outside of his 1989 feud with flair that impressed me all that much. People kept talking about how great he was but there wasn't enough source material for that assumption.
*idly points you in the direction of AJPW in the '80's so that you may wish to revise and then reconsider your opinion*
And the Radicalz were underrated. What WWF attitude era lacked in terms of wrestling as opposed to arena brawls with a weak mid-card filled with guys like Val Venis, Bob Holly, and Al Snow was filled, making the WWF truly the best promotion from both a sales/marketing promotion viewpoint and a storyline/wrestling viewpoint.
Over or under?
The WWE?
The overall wrestling market is tiny compared to when I was a kid in the '70's with far less places to work, and a smaller economy in total. However, for those that make it, the wwe has made the paycheques huge, and are a truly global brand. Was it worth it for anyone other than VKM, the shareholders and about twenty talents?
No, I stand by what I said. I gave Funk credit for popularizing hardcore in north american wrestling. It's not like you can turn on your TV and see AJPW programming every weekend back in the 80s like you could the WWF, NWA, or AWA. If you didn't have sattelite or a lot of money to spend on Japanese import tapes, your were out of luck.
WWE is overrated. See "Is WWE getting any better" Thread for reasons why.
G.L.O.W.
drchannard
07-15-2010, 09:51 AM
G.L.O.W.
Ok, this one hurts.
GLOW was overrated. I was a big fan whenever I could actually watch it but the irratic timeslot it had made that slightly difficult. Still, when I was able to catch it, I was entertained for the most part.
Then why am I saying it was overrated? Because whenever I look back at almost anything that I watched during my younger years (around 6 or so), it doesn't stand the test of time. This being no different. They had the classic 80s over the top gimmicks that wouldn't come close to holding up today. I think maybe one girl from GLOW actually moved onto the WWF which can show the lack of talent that the rest of the women had. They had the stupid competitions that are similar to NXT having the rookies carry a keg around the ring (the one that sticks out in my mind is that two teams of girls had to run up and down escalators in a race... really) that seemed to have nothing to do with the rest of the show.
O/U:
Custom Entrance Themes/Songs
ChrisBear
07-15-2010, 11:35 AM
Under...
A good theme song that is customed to you goes a long way. Unless you have it for too long (sexy boy).
O/U
Paul Bearer
makeo
07-15-2010, 12:26 PM
No, I stand by what I said. I gave Funk credit for popularizing hardcore in north american wrestling. It's not like you can turn on your TV and see AJPW programming every weekend back in the 80s like you could the WWF, NWA, or AWA. If you didn't have sattelite or a lot of money to spend on Japanese import tapes, your were out of luck.
It's good to back up your opinions, however the reason I believe yours is incorrect, is that it relies on two key things, and reflects a narrow viewpoint.
1) You couldn't see Funk in the U.S in the '80's as much.
2) That this was important to wrestling overall within the current context or historically.
This is unimportant to viewing Funk overall imo.
AJPW was bigger than anything in the U.S at the time. He was top in the top promotion on the planet. The U.S promotions were as large or slightly smaller.
As wrestling continues to globalise, the history of certain markets, and how they can related to people become more important. 27% of WWE revenue comes from abroad and that market is expnding. The domestic is shrinking.
If WWE continues to dominate Mexico has it has been, and grows in India and China, the main market left is Japan. The Jap market is the second largest, and possible to break, but WWE has failed to so far.
People like Hansen, Brody, The Funks, Gordy etc are one of the links that can be marketed.
Between the Kings road Jap style in AJPW and the U.S, it is possible to present certain values that you have promoted as being important to you. As ECW was taken for it's brand name in the U.S, certain wrestlers with Jap history could be to break that market.
For a modern equivalent see Albert/Giant Bernard.
Only an opinion though. Mine is that the current market is established, as is it's "lore", expanding that would lead to greater marketing opportunities. Only WCW/WWF in the last 20 years is too narrow and a dwindling fan-base. ;)
And Paul Bearer is underrated as a performer and the initial work in getting Undertaker over. He was the mouthpiece and often the fulcrum on which feuds centred around.
I'll go Indy and hope no-one gives a push answer.
Davey Richards.
It's good to back up your opinions, however the reason I believe yours is incorrect, is that it relies on two key things, and reflects a narrow viewpoint.
1) You couldn't see Funk in the U.S in the '80's as much.
2) That this was important to wrestling overall within the current context or historically.
This is unimportant to viewing Funk overall imo.
AJPW was bigger than anything in the U.S at the time. He was top in the top promotion on the planet. The U.S promotions were as large or slightly smaller.
As wrestling continues to globalise, the history of certain markets, and how they can related to people become more important. 27% of WWE revenue comes from abroad and that market is expnding. The domestic is shrinking.
If WWE continues to dominate Mexico has it has been, and grows in India and China, the main market left is Japan. The Jap market is the second largest, and possible to break, but WWE has failed to so far.
People like Hansen, Brody, The Funks, Gordy etc are one of the links that can be marketed.
Between the Kings road Jap style in AJPW and the U.S, it is possible to present certain values that you have promoted as being important to you. As ECW was taken for it's brand name in the U.S, certain wrestlers with Jap history could be to break that market.
Only an opinion though. ;)
I think you are reading WAAAY too much into this and to say that my opinion is a narrow viewpoint because it doesn't measure up to YOUR opinion is indeed a NARROW viewpoint. I never claimed to be a pro-wrestling historian. To this day I have not seen any of his AJPW matches. All I have seen is his WWF work in the early 80s, NWA work in the late 80s, and ECW work in the mid 90s. You cannot comment on something you haven't seen. In my opinion based on what I had SEEN is why I felt his career in the 80s was overrated.
It's a pretty self-explanatory response. That insulting dissertation of yours was completely unnecessary. And since you want to go there....
Hulk Hogan's wrestling ability
makeo
07-15-2010, 01:16 PM
I think you are reading WAAAY too much into this and to say that my opinion is a narrow viewpoint because it doesn't measure up to YOUR opinion is indeed a NARROW viewpoint. I never claimed to be a pro-wrestling historian. To this day I have not seen any of his AJPW matches. All I have seen is his WWF work in the early 80s, NWA work in the late 80s, and ECW work in the mid 90s. You cannot comment on something you haven't seen. In my opinion based on what I had SEEN is why I felt his career in the 80s was overrated.
It's a pretty self-explanatory response. That insulting dissertation of yours was completely unnecessary. And since you want to go there....
Hulk Hogan's wrestling ability
Eh?
I wasn't trying to insult you. I was trying to open up the answer or question. You have got all defensive for no reason.
EDIT: As a side point *I did say "Checkout AJPW" * before commenting. That was open, not sarcastic. ;)
Since you want to go there, Hogan was a genius in his time. Underrated in his ring abilities, which were better than people make out, and fully capable or intelligent enough to sacrifice them for the key purpose of making dough. Lazy, complacent, egocentric? Oh yeah. The main man in understanding the people he was marketing to? Oh, hell yeah.
ChrisBear
07-15-2010, 01:38 PM
Makeo is very underrated
Eh?
I wasn't trying to insult you. I was trying to open up the answer or question. You have got all defensive for no reason.
So I take it that telling people they have a "narrow viewpoint" is part of your everyday conversation. I see.
EDIT: As a side point *I did say "Checkout AJPW" * before commenting. ;)
Um....did you start this thread? Is that a pre-requisite to posting a reply in this thread. Have you confirmed every single post in this thread that EVERYONE has checked all available sources before posting their opinion? The answer would be no, no, and NO. I wasn't aware I had to consult you and make sure my responses fall within the parameters of your point of view. I'll remember that for next time.
Since you want to go there, Hogan was a genius in his time. Underrated in his ring abilities, which were better than people make out, and fully capable or intelligent enough to sacrifice them for the key purpose of making dough. Lazy, complacent, egocentric? Oh yeah. The main man in understanding the people he was marketing to? Oh, hell yeah.
Hook-line-and sinker. You took the bait like a champ. The fact of the matter is most people never have, nor care to research Hulk Hogan work in Japan and they look at his limited skill set in the U.S. and think that is what he is all about. Since I am a Hogan mark, it interested me to go off and do research on his entire wrestling career and that is when I saw how solid of a technican he actually was in Japan. Particularly his match with the Great Muta in 1993. Not only that, his post match shoot basically explained in a nutshell what hi career had become and his distain for it.
The point is, because I was never impressed with Terry Funk to start with so I had no desire to research any of his work abroad. That's why I say that based off of his North American work in the 80s he was overrated. it should be noticed that very little mention was made on TV about his work in Japan either. I also think there is something to be said that if Hulk Hogan can look like a technical wonder in Japan then perhaps it's not a measure of how great they actually are but how much are they being surpressed in North America. For all we know the worst wrestlers you can think of would look servicable over there.
When greatness stand next to mediocrity, it looks ultra-great. However when greatness stands next to greatness, it doesn't look as great anymore.
King Kong Bundy
Dark-Crusader
07-15-2010, 01:56 PM
King Kong Bundy was definitely underrated. People tend to lean more towards Big John Studd out of their tag team tenure, however I felt Bundy was the one who stood out. He and Studd's matches with Andre the Giant and Hogan played a great part in helping the "Big Man Movement" move forward. The only downside I have was that he never got a chance to do a few matches with Vader...would've been classic.
Big Show
makeo
07-15-2010, 02:04 PM
Makeo is very underrated
Possibly. ;)
Or maybe like Johnny Cash if you hang around long enough, your time comes again. ;)
An Indian summer is good for me. It is totally no-shit the best time to be a wrestling fan. I can watch a Dynamite/Rocco match, see a Harley Race match, watch Lyger/Pillman or Sasuke/Benoit, Rock promo, Shingo/BxB Hulk, back to Lionheart in SWA , to PAC, to Lesnar, to Kenny Omega/Ibushi in DDT, to Kasai in BJW, to Magnus on the Brit Indies to MCMG, to Misawa/ Kobashi, to Tyson Kidd, to Orton match and back.
Fuck me, life is great as a fan. The Scottish Indy scene and Japs is good, let alone the main players.
makeo
07-15-2010, 02:28 PM
So I take it that telling people they have a "narrow viewpoint" is part of your everyday conversation. I see.
Glad you do. If they have it, I tell 'em. You do, so I did.
I view it as part of my " Care in the community work". People who do not yet have the understanding or knowledge that the rest of society takes for granted, should be helped to acquire this knowledge. No payment needed.
Um....did you start this thread? Is that a pre-requisite to posting a reply in this thread. Have you confirmed every single post in this thread that EVERYONE has checked all available sources before posting their opinion? The answer would be no, no, and NO. I wasn't aware I had to consult you and make sure my responses fall within the parameters of your point of view. I'll remember that for next time.
Dear Sarcastic Cunt,
Obviously my opinion is just that. An opinion. However, I have gone out of my way to induldge your stupidity and be polite. I will no longer do so.
Hook-line-and sinker. You took the bait like a champ. The fact of the matter is most people never have, nor care to research Hulk Hogan work in Japan and they look at his limited skill set in the U.S. and think that is what he is all about. Since I am a Hogan mark, it interested me to go off and do research on his entire wrestling career and that is when I saw how solid of a technican he actually was in Japan. Particularly his match with the Great Muta in 1993. Not only that, his post match shoot basically explained in a nutshell what hi career had become and his distain for it.
Eh, so because I'm not borderline retarded and have watched wrestling, it's a biggie?
The point is, because I was never impressed with Terry Funk to start with so I had no desire to research any of his work abroad. That's why I say that based off of his North American work in the 80s he was overrated. it should be noticed that very little mention was made on TV about his work in Japan either. I also think there is something to be said that if Hulk Hogan can look like a technical wonder in Japan then perhaps it's not a measure of how great they actually are but how much are they being surpressed in North America. For all we know the worst wrestlers you can think of would look servicable over there.
When greatness stand next to mediocrity, it looks ultra-great. However when greatness stands next to greatness, it doesn't look as great anymore.
Laughable. And borderline racist. Catch yourself on.
Oh, btw, please answer within an hour next time, you thinking a response up for ages while viewing the thread is starting to make me snicker.
"narrow viewpoint"
"borderline retarded"
"insinuating that I made borderline racist remarks"
Sorry to inform you that flame-baiting doesn't work on me. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. :biggrin:
I'll be the adult here and prevent you from embarrassing yourself any further and say lets just agree to disagree. We are done here.
The Big Show
It's hard to say. I can't really think of him as overrated. They never made Show out to be the end all, be all unstoppable monster that Andre The Giant was. I'll say underrated.
Special guest referees
makeo
07-15-2010, 02:49 PM
Errrr no.
You'll be the child slinging mud and slink off with your tail 'twixt your legs.
Narrow viewpoint: It was.
Borderline racist: It was.
Borderline retarded: Bit harsh on retards, but to view it as anything else is harsh on them. I actually like 'tards as they can give a childlike perception on events. You, not so much.
Feel free to try to spend ages thinking up a response that makes any kind of coherent sense for ages.
drchannard
07-15-2010, 02:54 PM
Special guest referees
This can only be overrated.
9 times out of 10, having a special guest referee let's you know exactly how the match is going to end up which effectively kills all the suspense and storytelling of a match. Having a special ringside enforcer is only worse.
O/U -
House shows
I would say underrated because house shows have always been very important to keeping WWE viable ans stable. Touring is important for any form of entertainment.
Iron Man Match
DaBadGuy
07-15-2010, 03:51 PM
"narrow viewpoint"
"borderline retarded"
"insinuating that I made borderline racist remarks"
Sorry to inform you that flame-baiting doesn't work on me. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. :biggrin:
I'll be the adult here and prevent you from embarrassing yourself any further and say lets just agree to disagree. We are done here.
Yeah, once people start making ridiculous assertions it's usually time to just ignore them.
makeo
07-15-2010, 04:02 PM
Yeah, once people start making ridiculous assertions it's usually time to just ignore them.
Agreed. And as he did, and had no recourse to logic, it was.
On the other hand, people throwing mud because they lack the rquired intellectual abilitites should be corrected.
Looking forward to your next TNA post. ;)
Yeah, once people start making ridiculous assertions it's usually time to just ignore them.
Iron Man Match
makeo
07-15-2010, 04:27 PM
Push. Gotta love small minded idiots that feel they can give that answer and then ask a question they like.
Ultramantis Black? Maybe Fonzee would still be in this thread, if people answered questions like that.
Oh well, maybe the thread should be moved to '93- present WWE for U.S watchers, who believe that it
is the shizzle and if they didn't see it, it doesn't count.
Tough one for you fellas. OVW under Heyman?
ChrisBear
07-15-2010, 04:39 PM
Magnus on the Brit Indies to
Ahh a fonder time...
Ultramantis black.
Bryan Danielson's eating buddy.
Overrated for me (sorry Fonezees). Just when I watch Chikara, he isn't someone I look forward to. Its a weird one, I find his in-ring work to be solid as they come but he just lacks that certain...I dont know, face maybe!?
Over or under.
Barri Griffiths
Get researching boys
Push. Gotta love small minded idiots that feel they can give that answer and then ask a question they like.
^^ Reported ^^
Barri Griffiths. He looks kinda like a cross between Batista and Steve Blackman. He looks impressive to me. Still kinda early to rate him though. Not really fair to say one way or another. Push.
Barry Horowitz.
ChrisBear
07-15-2010, 04:44 PM
You reported me? just because I said Ultramantis Black was overrated.
Your dead tight on me.
LMBO! Sorry about that. It wasn't you. LOL :biggrin:
makeo
07-15-2010, 04:59 PM
Nah, he reported me, and edited his post.
Not even for saying anything about Ultramantis either. :(
Guess he thought I was being specific. As if.
Oh, and C-Bear, do you follow the indies at all?
SWA is decent, as is IPW: UK, FWA and anythng the Pompey boys are promoting. I don't know the Northern scene though.
South coast and Sloane/Stone with the Jap boys is what I see.
Seen a bit of all-star on the "Holiday-camp" tour as well.
Haskins is doing well in Dragongate and that scene.
People would be surprised at the talent depth.
ChrisBear
07-15-2010, 05:08 PM
Yeah I catch as much as I can, hold my hands up and say I've been a tad neglectful over the past couple of years. I used to score free tickets of Barri Griffiths before he went to FCW as he followed the team I played for so whenever he wrestled, I'd go watch.
makeo
07-15-2010, 05:24 PM
It's a weird mish-mash, ain't it?
It's not by fluke that a lot of talent is emerging though.
Burchill, Katie-Lea, McIntyre, Devitt, Sheamus, Wolfe, Williams, Terry, Magnus etc all making it to the bigs is a good ratio,
There are fellas like Lionheart, Noam Dar, and Haskins that could work.
Or Stone. he's the biggie on the Brit scene, that is unknown.
It's hot as ever in a quiet way.
ChrisBear
07-15-2010, 05:33 PM
Absolutely...The Brit indy scene was vastly Underrated (keeping on topic) when I followed it. Specifically Griffiths, Williams and Magnus. I'm particularly disappointed in Magnus though, he has it all, just been sucked into stupid angles. Hell, the guy single-handily carried a series of gladiators!
MournDespana
07-15-2010, 05:52 PM
Someone asked about Big Show...
I will say very very underrated. If he never gets another real reign with a major title, it would be a waste. I would love to see him win The Royal Rumble and go after a heel Cena. Seriously
Michael Tarver
Again, it's kinda early. Not really fair to judge him right now. All the Nexus guys to me seem rather impressive. I'll say underated.
Santino Marella
Cold Summ3r
07-15-2010, 08:46 PM
I can't say he's either. IMO the E can do more with him other than a comedic act but i guess they rather not.
80's wrestling
Dark-Crusader
07-15-2010, 11:28 PM
Wow, just the lineup of that time would make you think overrated. NWA, AWA, WCCW, GCW (for the southern heads), Mid-South Wrestling, Stampede, and of course WWF. However as time went on somehow, a select number of people decided to overrate the hell out of the Attitude Era and pretend like nothing happened before. Not to mention the overlooked stars in that time. So...underrated...
Mark Henry's ECW Title run in 2008
I think Mark Henry is underused altogether so I definitely will give that an underrated.
Mr. Perfect's IC title runs.
HBK911
07-16-2010, 05:48 AM
I think Mark Henry is underused altogether so I definitely will give that an underrated.
Mr. Perfect's IC title runs.
Neither.
People don't really mentioned Perfect's IC runs enough to say "overrated."
At the same time though, it's been so long that I don't remember much about his IC title runs, except that he won it in a tournament after Warrior vacated it, he lost it to Kerry Von Erich, and he regained it, then finally lost to Bret Hart at SSlam '91.
Even though I used to love Perfect, I honestly don't remember most of his matches or feuds other than Von Erich during his IC Title Run.
And since I like to be as accurate as possible, I can't answer.
The Four Horsemen
Gooner
07-16-2010, 08:07 AM
Well, they are rated very highly, one of the best stables in history... and they are still underrated.
IWC's influence in WWE booking
Double Murder Josh
07-16-2010, 09:57 AM
Rated fairly. I don't know many people who think the IWC has much sway over the WWE's booking these days, so....
The NXT Angle
drchannard
07-16-2010, 09:58 AM
IWC's influence in WWE booking
Overrated
If the IWC actually had any influence at all in WWE booking, William Regal would have held the World/WWE title on a few occasions and Bryan Danielson would probably never have been fired. The only sway that the IWC has in WWE booking is the increase in the WWE's efforts to hide storylines from going public before they happen.
EDIT: Damn, you beat me
The NXT Angle
Underrated -
This is the most I've been into a storyline since probably the days of Austin vs. McMahon and the nWo invasion. It has potential to go into the overrated section quickly but right now things are progressing perfectly. I think that the NXT rookies actually attract the older crowd and the IWC seem to like them but the WWE can keep their PG rating and have the kids still love John Cena. Right now, I think the entire NXT Angle makes nearly everyone happy.
O/U -
Green/Red/Black Mist
Dark-Crusader
07-16-2010, 07:37 PM
When it was exclusive to Japan, underrated. However as time went on and it became introduced to the U.S. scene, it became overexposed. I mean it served its purpose in the matches, but it had gotten to the point where it was just another way to win matches ala brass knuckles. If i'm not mistaken, it back-fired on Tajiri a few times in matches against Trips and Batista.
Triple H as a heel
HBK911
07-17-2010, 05:22 AM
When it was exclusive to Japan, underrated. However as time went on and it became introduced to the U.S. scene, it became overexposed. I mean it served its purpose in the matches, but it had gotten to the point where it was just another way to win matches ala brass knuckles. If i'm not mistaken, it back-fired on Tajiri a few times in matches against Triple and Batista.
Triple H as a heel
I won't say overRATED, but I'll say overDONE.
Triple H makes a DAMN good heel, as we all know.
But it's been done so much that it's nothing to look FORWARD to.
(Although I'll admit, unless he's in DX, Triple H as a FACE is getting boring now TOO)
I guess I'll say underrated.
The Franchise, Shane Douglas in ECW
Underrated. Shane Douglas' heel run in ECW was legendary. He was never used properly in the WWF or WCW.
The 1997 ECW invasion of the WWF
Dark-Crusader
07-17-2010, 05:38 PM
Highly underrated imo. BWO was probaly one of my favorite knockoff factions of the NWO, with me actually becoming even more of a fan of Stevie Richards. Blue World Order was on par if not more entertaining than LWO.
"The Awesome One" The Miz
HBK911
07-18-2010, 07:23 AM
Highly underrated imo. BWO was probaly one of my favorite knockoff factions of the NWO, with me actually becoming even more of a fan of Stevie Richards. Blue World Order was on par if not more entertaining than LWO.
"The Awesome One" The Miz
Both, actually.
Underrated in the sense that his MIC skills are AWWWESOOMMMMEEE. He's arguably the best guy on the mic IN WWE.
Overrated in terms of his IMPORTANCE. I think Miz is great, but I rarely think about him when he's not on. I forget he's even on the card until he shows up.
O/U: The nWo's theme music (the black & white)
Gooner
07-18-2010, 12:26 PM
I have it as a ring tone on my phone... nuff said, underrated.
Importance of theme songs
Thomas
07-18-2010, 01:26 PM
overated = drew mciintrye underate = christian
Wild Bill Hombre
07-18-2010, 01:45 PM
I have it as a ring tone on my phone... nuff said, underrated.
Importance of theme songs
In my opinion a wrestlers entrance music is one of the most important parts of a wrestlers gimmick. You could never main event wrestlemania with a bad entrance song, it just wouldn't work. Also, when a wrestler makes a surprise return from an injury/etc. Think about everytime SCSA would make a surprise return, the glasss shatters and then shit would go crazy. My point is the most popular wrestlers over the years have always had great entrance songs.
Examples: SCSA, The Rock, Cena, Orton, HHH......it goes on.
People held back by there theme(IMO): Matt Hardy(Not the Hardy Boyz music), Morrison, Ziggler.
Oh and I hate drew mcyntyre, he is the most overrrated wrestler, and he has terrible music.
Hell in a Cell matches Over/Under
Cold Summ3r
07-18-2010, 03:26 PM
After the first two Hell in a Cell matches, I would have to say overrated.
Rick Rude
Dark-Crusader
07-20-2010, 09:25 PM
To this day he's underrated. From being a straight heat magnet, charisma, and even slicker in ring style...the man could just simply get it done. Ricky Steamboat he was not in the technical department, but when it came to the ideal heel and cutting promos...few could do it better than Mr. Ravishing.
Evan Bourne
HBK911
07-21-2010, 04:11 PM
To this day he's underrated. From being a straight heat magnet, charisma, and even slicker in ring style...the man could just simply get it done. Ricky Steamboat he was not in the technical department, but when it came to the ideal heel and cutting promos...few could do it better than Mr. Ravishing.
Evan Bourne
Overrated @ Evan Bourne. To ME anyway.
I mean sure I love the shooting star press. But overall, I just don't care about him the way I would Orton, Jericho, Miz, Cena, etc.
Hell, I'm not even a fan of EDGE. But he matters more than Bourne does (to me.)
Bourne is simply a talented, small, white meat babyface (with no personality) that I have ZERO interest in.
O/U: Jesse Ventura as a color commentator
Sorely missed, and colossally underrated. It was great having him and McMahon doing commentary last year when he hosted RAW. I think it was last year.
Bad News Brown (Allen)
The Hurra Duff
07-21-2010, 11:54 PM
Very underrated. He seemed like the scariest man alive when I was around 7-9 years old. Plus how can you call him overrated when he once challenged Andre the Giant to a real fight.
Kane?
Dark-Crusader
07-22-2010, 01:06 AM
Kane has been one of the most consistent and hardest workers in the business for the past 15 plus years. There's a reason Undertaker (it was believed to be) willing to put his Wrestlemania streak on the line for the man. Simply put, one of the most underrated big men of all time. Glad he's getting a chance to get a run with the World title one last time before he calls it a career.
Victoria's heel run in WWE (for some reason I loved the psycho chick gimmick)
I'm gonna say overrated for two reasons.
1. After the shock value wore off, so did the novelty of the whole angle. Teaming her up with Steven Richards was kind of dumb too.
2. Mickie James did it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better.
RTC (Right To Censor)
comrade_mario
07-22-2010, 01:03 PM
RTC
About right rated
They were alright as a mid-card attraction, nothing more, nothing less
HBK vs Taker, both WM matches
HBK911
07-22-2010, 01:04 PM
I'm gonna say overrated for two reasons.
1. After the shock value wore off, so did the novelty of the whole angle. Teaming her up with Steven Richards was kind of dumb too.
2. Mickie James did it WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better.
RTC (Right To Censor)
Underrated.
Right To Censor PISSED PEOPLE OFF, which is what they were designed to do.
So I say underrated. Especially since people don't talk them up that much anyway.
Up Next...
Slick's "Jive Soul Bro" theme...
HBK VS. Taker WM matches.
To me both matches were unbelievable, but I say they were very slightly overrated only because people seemingly unanimously agree that those were the two best WM matches ever where as I don't think they were even close. Good high-spots, good ring psychology, but the work rate to me was only okay outside of the high-spots. I'll put their WM25 match in the top-ten all time, but can name 9 matches better.
Savage/Steamboat
Austin/Rock trilogy
Bret/Austin
Bret/HBK
Benoit/Angle
Hogan/Warrior
Warrior/Savage
That's just me.
Slick's "Jive Soul Bro" theme OWNS and needs to be used again. Severely underrated.
Koko B Ware's finisher - Ghostbuster.
Dark-Crusader
07-22-2010, 08:38 PM
Underrated. People sometimes pass it off as a regular brainbuster, when in essence...it WASNT. The move was dangerous and destructive in nature. If sold to the tee, (ie BK Brawler, Piper, etc.), it came off as a believable incapacitating move.
O/U: The Undertaker's Last Ride Finisher
I'm gonna say overrated on this one. Even though Taker raises you up that extra few feet for the power-bomb, he lays you down pretty much flat on your back which really doesn't give the illusion of a devastating impact that a normal power-bomb does from a 7 footer. Sid Vicious is the MASTER of the power-bomb and I haven't seen anyone perform one better than him till this very day.
The Chokeslam.
Dark-Crusader
07-22-2010, 11:13 PM
Both if you ask me. Underrated, because it depends on who's doing it. Overrated, because it hasn't been consistent over the years as it should have been. Kane earlier in his career, was straight DEVASTATING with his chokeslams. Not that he hasn't been recently (ask mysterio and cm punk about that). Undertaker's haven't been as harsh as of late before his injury. Big Show use to make me cringe with his, but he hasn't been as forceful with his and consistent like he should be.
Sticking with finishers...
U/O: The GTS (Go to Sleep)
StormDragonZ
07-22-2010, 11:28 PM
Sticking with finishers...
U/O: The GTS (Go to Sleep)
Honestly, it's overrated. I can understand working it for mid-carders and Rey Mysterio, but to any main-eventer, it just doesn't look devestating. That's just me, but the Anaconda Vice was just that much greater.
Over/Under: Christian's finisher: The Killswitch.
drchannard
07-23-2010, 10:54 AM
Over/Under: Christian's finisher: The Killswitch.
I love the Killswitch so I'm going to say underrated. However, the easy argument for it to overrated is that it's not a move that can hit or applied out of nowhere. He has to grabs the opponents arms and slowly turn them into the right position. The Twist of Fate is another good example of this. I like a finisher that can catch an opponent when they're not expecting it (like a spear, anklelock, superkick, or a cutter).
So let's stick with the finisher theme:
The Rock selling the Stone Cold Stunner
comrade_mario
07-23-2010, 11:15 AM
Underrated
The Rock sold the Stunner like it was the toughest finished to take, which at the time in the WWF it was supposed to be. A more realistic selling of it (i.e. the opponant slumping unconcious to Austin's side) doesn't make it look half as devastating.
On finisher's THE ANGLE SLAM
Kaiser Kid
07-23-2010, 02:53 PM
Overated.
I just can't see how it can be a finishing move, it's a back drop. It's a normal move, not a finisher imo.
Over or Under: Goldberg's Jackhammer.
Dark-Crusader
07-23-2010, 04:44 PM
I'm going with both as well for this one. Underrated because the opponents he would perform it on such as Meng (Haku), The Giant, and Scott Norton back in the WCW days was remarkable. However overrated for the fact that it started to lose steam after he would split the opponent in half after the spear. At times it felt that the Jackhammer wasn't even needed after the spear. I'll admit though NOBODY from what I remember kicked out of it, (during WCW anyway).
While we're still on finishers...
O/U: The spear (all of the wrestlers who've used it)
The Hurra Duff
07-23-2010, 05:17 PM
As a finisher it's OVERRATED. I know most people would probably disagree with me but I think a Spear is more of a setup to a finisher than a finisher itself (ala Goldberg doing it to setup the Jackhammer); as a finisher I think it is sorta lame.
O/U: The Liontamer (not the Walls of Jericho but what Jericho used in WCW)
Underrated. Was an awesome submission. He needs to bring it back.
Professional wrestling today.
MournDespana
07-24-2010, 06:49 AM
A Big Underrated.
The past will never be duplicated and it seems that the new generation of fans (the ones under the age of 12) will appreciate the work of the newer guys in 10 years like most of us did of the attitude era.
Edit; Fine, I have a better one...
Sting
Dark-Crusader
07-25-2010, 05:59 PM
To answer your previous one, Earthquake I believe? Yes he was underrated. I caught the tail end of his time in WWF and saw most of his stuff in WCW. He was quite the agile one for a man his size. Hate we never saw that supposed Owen Hart match at King of the Ring.
Sting? Earlier in his career definitely underrated. From his classic matches with Flair, Windham, and Rotunda in NWA to his debut in WCW...I loved him. However as he became fully engulfed into the "Crow" gimmick it began to wear thin for me. Late 90's Sting overrated, early NWA-WCW, underrated.
O/U: Lucha-Libre Style Wrestling
I don't think a lot of people realize just how invaluable the Cruiser-weight division was in WCW during the mid 90s. When people look at the success of WCW retrospectively it's always
1. nWo angle
2. Goldberg
3. Cruiser-weight division
I will go on record that without the influx of Luchadores into that division it would not have been as successful and without that division the nWo angle would have gotten old a LOT faster than it did. So I say it was vastly underrated.
Raven's Flock WCW
HBK911
07-26-2010, 08:16 PM
Raven's Flock WCW
I'm not really sure how to rate this one, honestly.
I think Raven's Flock was TOTALLY misused. (But then again, so was RAVEN.)
The Flock could have been used the same way Raven's NEST was in ECW.
They could've made Raven a huge mid-card threat, using the flock to help him get OVER. Thus, getting the Flock over in the PROCESS.
But, I think Bischoff and co. wanted the nWo to be the biggest (and only real credible) faction in WCW.
The Horsemen became a joke once the nWo came in. Same with the Dungeon of Doom, etc.
So, I guess I'd say overrated for what they WERE, and underrated for what they COULD have been @ Raven's Flock in WCW.
King Mabel.
MournDespana
07-27-2010, 01:15 AM
Over fucking rated. He was agile, but sucked in ring, had no charisma as a heel, and Mo was the dumbest manager they have had. Oscar was bad too so using him instead wouldn't have helped. Now, Teddy Long would have got him over.
Think of a tag team with OMG and Mabel with Slick as manager, wrestling gold.
Kevin Sullivan
Dark-Crusader
07-27-2010, 06:25 PM
Underrated as far as his in ring work in NWA, ECW, and some of WCW. Of course the "Art Imitating Life" angle with Benoit put him over in a new light. However as a booker, I never really "got into" his work like that. His work with Paul Heyman and Oliver was good stuff. His handling of the Dungeon of Doom leads some others to believe otherwise about him, but that was mishandled in my view. He's treading the line of overrated as far as some of his work goes; but not overrated overall.
O/U: Paul Heyman as head booker
Hidden
07-27-2010, 07:35 PM
Thats a hard one. Paul H is possibly over rated by the fans, under rated by the McMahons. He's definately a valuable asset and clearly great at generating the correct kind of creative control over a product (ECW would have been nothing without him obviously, and Smackdown was best under his hand), the fans have made into some kind of mythic hero though (which he isnt). Should he still be working in the industry ? Yea probably (I would like him back personally). I'm not even convinced that the McMahons dont appreciate his abilities they just know they have no competition and Vince doesnt like people who dont suck his wang. I'll go with over rated but ONLY because people who think he will be able to save TNA are over rating his ability.
The Order Of The Neo Solar Temple
HBK911
07-31-2010, 07:37 PM
The Order Of The Neo Solar Temple
Never heard of it....AT ALL.
So, push....
Over or Under: Mick Foley's fall off the HIAC cage against Taker in 98?
Double Murder Josh
07-31-2010, 07:50 PM
I'm gonna say Underrated, simply because if anyone doesn't consider it the greatest high spot in wrestling history, they're going to need a eal strong argument to win. I mean, before that spot, Mick Foley had a cult following and lots of grotesque highlights in his hardcore career (from WCW to ECW to Japan), but I don't think ANYONE predicted he would become one of the highest paid, biggest money makers in American wrestling history. I don't think anyone said "Here's a guy with the range to play both maniacal heel and comedy babyface." Then, after the spot, he was the most talked about performer on the roster (at a time when Austin, The Rock, Kane, The Undertaker, and DX were also helping WWE kick WCW's ass). Before the fall, he was a part-time main eventer, occasionally fighting for The Big One, but always losing. After it, he was a multi-time World Champion (back when the company only had ONE World Championship, too!). In one match, with pretty much one spot (though, the other spots he took in that match were uncanny as well), he leapfrogged to the top of the WWE and became *synonymous* with hardcore wrestling. There is no other wrestler, not Funk, not Raven, not Sabu, not Necro Butcher, not Bruiser Brody, that is more associated with hardcore wrestling than Mick Foley (at least, in the US). He owes that to a lifetime of hardcore wrestling....but that spot made it all worth it.
Over or Under
Bobby Heenan being called, by JR himself, the best all-arounder performer (in the sense that he could work a crowd, commentate, manage, even wrestle) in wrestling history.
Push. That's a pretty accurate statement of Bobby Heenan. Can't disagree at all.
Ravishing Rick Rude "Rude Awakening" kiss after the match gimmick.
Dark-Crusader
08-01-2010, 02:16 PM
Underrated for that one. I always was entertained by Rude for some reason. However when he went to Jake's wife in the audience, that was definitely one of the underrated moments as far as Rude's character was concerned. Not to mention Ventura's hilarious commentary with Vince was what helped make the segment. Too many classic lines during that commentary for it not to be gold.
O/U: John Cena and Batista's feud/matches earlier this year
John Cena in his current gimmick in and of itself is overrated so every feud he has been in since he abandoned his "Thug Life" persona to me has been overrated. HOWEVER, Batista on the other hand did the best mic work of his career in that feud and for the first time I bought Batista as a legitimate main-event player and not as just another hoss WWE forced into the main-event circuit because of his size and strength. It was to the point that Batista made John Cena look and sound as if he didn't even belong on his level the same way a Triple H, Undertaker, Jericho, or an HBK would have. It's kind of a shame that Batista decided to leave just when he was in my opinion reaching that zenith of being over with the fans. I guess this a push with a lean towards underrated only because I was more impressed with Batista than unimpressed with Cena.
Harlem Heat
StormDragonZ
08-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Harlem Heat
Completely underrated. An excellent Tag Team back in WCW that won the Tag Belts I believe ten times. I wonder sometimes whatever happened to Stevie Ray. I know he did commentary, but besides that, I have no idea.
Over/Under: Steve Austin's role as the referee in the match between Brock Lesnar & Goldberg at Wrestlemania 20.
To be quite honest by that time Austin's shtick had gotten old so it really didn't matter that he was the special guest referee for that terrible match. Overrated.
WWF Livewire
HBK911
08-02-2010, 07:03 AM
Underrated for that one. I always was entertained by Rude for some reason. However when he went to Jake's wife in the audience, that was definitely one of the underrated moments as far as Rude's character was concerned. Not to mention Ventura's hilarious commentary with Vince was what helped make the segment. Too many classic lines during that commentary for it not to be gold.
Fucking AGREE. A million times over.
And just for those of you who DON'T know what Dark Crusader is talking about, JUST WATCH...(and listen)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz2b0p8XPbM
And to their credit, Rude and Heenan weren't bad on the mic here either.
Rude's classic line of "Where...is THIS ugly thing your husband?" was pure fucking gold.
DON'T SKIP THIS POST, EITHER.
WATCH THE CLIP!!!!
WWF Livewire
The ORIGINAL concept (live calls on-air, emails, faxes, etc. things that weren't scripted) = UNDERRATED.
That was GROUNDBREAKING for wrestling at the time, ESPECIALLY WW(F)E.
It was WAY ahead of its time in 96.
However, the LATER concept (just your basic RECAP show) was EXTREMELY overrated.
Ok now, here's one: Roddy Piper
Astronomically Underrated. Never used to his full potential in any federation he was in. He could have been top heel in the WWF for 10 years straight.
Vince McMahon
Dark-Crusader
08-02-2010, 06:55 PM
Vince is an interesting one. If we're talking on screen persona, on one hand he's underrated for his "Mr. McMahon" persona because let's face it; the man was a HEAT magnet during his corporate feud with Austin. Mr. McMahon being born after the infamous Montreal Screwjob, definitely helped spearhead the Attitude Era.
Him and The Rock did some pretty good stuff together as well. On the other hand there's his also "infamous" idea of the HBK and God tag teaming together, along with his other shenanigans. NOT a career highlight of Vince to say the least.
I can't really say overrated for Vince overall, because his great to ingenious ideas and of course conquering so much in the industry that is pro-wrestling, overrides any selfish, horrible, and documented low points. From a business perspective anyway. I say it's a push for Vinnie Mac.
O/U: 2nd and 3rd generation Superstars (past and present)
That's kind of a hit or miss question. I'm gonna say 'push' because there has been a equal amount of 2nd and 3rd generation failures as there has been success stories in the last 20 years. It's hard to even name them all. Overrated in terms of pushing them just because of their famous fathers. I mean really. Would a guy like Cody Rhodes have made it this far if he wasn't a Rhodes? Not a knock on him, but just saying. He isn't the most impressive thing I've seen.
O/U Super tag teams such as Mega-Powers, Mega Bucks, Twin Towers, Ultimate Maniacs, Mega-Manics, Rock N' Sock, Two-Man Power Trip, Brothers Of Destruction, Jeri-Show, or any tag team combination of two established main eventers.
The Hurra Duff
08-03-2010, 04:39 PM
UNDERRATED. I've always enjoyed seeing two established wrestlers team up. It gives credibility to the TT Division, something WWE has been SORELY SORELY LACKING for years now.
O/U: The NXT show as a whole (both seasons)?
MournDespana
08-03-2010, 04:46 PM
Underrated. This season has a chance to do the oppisite of the first. The first season had guys we were not sure about until the invasion angle and now most have a legit chance at breaking through (outside Otunga and Black Cena). This season has what it looks like a bunch of blue chippers and no way they will live up to what they look like. The two that had no chance, are already gone.
O/U: Sensational Sherri
Underrated. Sherri Martel was a great heel manager, and I don't know if my tastes are changing because I am getting older be she was pretty darned hot too. She always carried herself with a measure of class too. She was tough, she could take bumps better than some male wrestlers, she could work the crowd, she's basically what current WWE diva's need to look up to in terms of "how-to-do-this".
The Jumping Bomb Angels
Dark-Crusader
08-03-2010, 07:49 PM
Underrated. What today's women's tag-team matches SHOULD be. In a time when the Women's Tag-Team Championships were around in All Japan's scene, I had never seen anything like those two. Women's Division use to be full of promise and sacrifice with GREAT women who competed in it. Nowadays I feel almost sorry for calling it a "Women's Division". There's still a few repping for it, but not many.
O/U: Midcard Championships, ie the U.S. Title and IC Title, being used as a catapult to the main event for young, up and coming stars.
HBK911
08-03-2010, 09:08 PM
Since nobody gave a new one, I will...
The 1-2-3 Kid's first victory over Razor Ramon on RAW back in 1993.
To my knowledge, it was the first time a jobber had beaten an established star on TV before.
*EDIT*
The person who was originally before me deleted their post.
And the person AFTER me obviously doesn't understand the game.
charlemange
08-03-2010, 09:26 PM
the divas division is extremly overrated all they are are pretty girls who all do the same moves (huricarana crossbody botched dropkick ) who get about 12 minutes of tv/wrestle time a week on two 2 hour shows and they are suppeosed to be smart sexy and powerful last year when hassehof hoary raw someone was choking(Santino I think) and didn't know CPR or what to do at all they are dumb bimbos who all have bland gimmicks except for maybe 3 Beth pheonix (glamazon) laycool (pg beautiful people ) that's it and Jillian who has a singing gimmick that's it every tna girl is different except for lacey madison and velvet
the divas division is extremly overrated all they are are pretty girls who all do the same moves (huricarana crossbody botched dropkick )
LMBO! That's a killer....
*laughs in Tex Avery style*
Boy the sure gets me.......
*laughs some more in Tex Avery style*
Oh, if you don't know what the Tex Avery laugh sounds like here is a reference...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8mtZGBjbXo&playnext=1&videos=5B8oGxyrx2Q
Anyway, I agree whole-heartedly on the Divas. That is SOOOO TRUE.
To answer the Mic-card title question, I will say underrated because the majority of wrestlers that have worn those titles with pride have gone on to have long successful main event careers. Even though WWE has TRASHED the IC title and all the prestige is gone from that belt, at least the Miz is bringing prestige back to the U.S. Title.
Steel cage matches
HBK911
08-05-2010, 12:19 AM
To answer the Mic-card title question, I will say underrated because the majority of wrestlers that have worn those titles with pride have gone on to have long successful main event careers. Even though WWE has TRASHED the IC title and all the prestige is gone from that belt, at least the Miz is bringing prestige back to the U.S. Title.
Steel cage matches
Overrated @ Steel Cage Matches.
People make it a big deal, but it really does nothing extra like it USED to.
These days, a cage is just another specialty match, that ends up being no more brutal than a regular match.
Does it stop interference? No.
Is it more violent? No.
Is there any blood? No.
Is it more exciting? Not by much.
Now, the steel cage matches of OLD used to mean something, YEAH!
But these days? It's overrated for sure.
And now, since NOBODY ANSWERED....
The 1-2-3 Kid's first victory over Razor Ramon on RAW back in 1993.
To my knowledge, it was the first time a jobber had beaten an established star on TV before.
And if nobody REMEMBERS that ^^ incident, you can speak on WWF/E Talk Shows
(i.e. Brother Love, Piper's Pit, The Cutting Edge, Highlight Reel, etc.)
I was confused on your question because you kind of answered it yourself. I will say underrated because a jobber going over a major main-eventer like that was not something you saw every day. However, you could tell something fishy was going with how many times in a row you saw Sean Waltman with a different name on MNR.
Cannonball Kid
Lightning Kid
Kamikazi Kid
THE Kid
123-Kid
etc.
So you knew something was going to happen, just not what.
Monthly PPVS
HBK911
08-05-2010, 01:23 AM
I was confused on your question because you kind of answered it yourself. I will say underrated because a jobber going over a major main-eventer like that was not something you saw every day. However, you could tell something fishy was going with how many times in a row you saw Sean Waltman with a different name on MNR.
Cannonball Kid
Lightning Kid
Kamikazi Kid
THE Kid
123-Kid
etc.
So you knew something was going to happen, just not what.
Monthly PPVS
OVER-FUCKING-RATED
If you need an explanation, I'll provide one. However, I think it's self-explanatory.
Now...
WWF/E Talk Shows
(i.e. Brother Love, Piper's Pit, The Cutting Edge, Highlight Reel, etc.)
Whoa, calm down. I didn't mean any disrespect. I was just confused like I said.
Anyway, on the talk shows it's hard to gauge that. Since 90% of the rosters is lacking in the mic skills department it really doesn't have much of a place in today's WWE. However back in the day when only a few guys didn't have at least adequate mic skills talks shows were very important. Many storyline started, progressed, and ended on talks shows such as The Flower Shop, Piper's Pit, The Snake Pit, and Brother Love. Outside of the 80's and early 90's talk show really haven't had much flavor. I'm gonna have to say push because there are too many variables involved to give a fair vote.
Matt Stryker as a color commentator.
HBK911
08-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Whoa, calm down. I didn't mean any disrespect. I was just confused like I said.
Anyway, on the talk shows it's hard to gauge that. Since 90% of the rosters is lacking in the mic skills department it really doesn't have much of a place in today's WWE. However back in the day when only a few guys didn't have at least adequate mic skills talks shows were very important. Many storyline started, progressed, and ended on talks shows such as The Flower Shop, Piper's Pit, The Snake Pit, and Brother Love. Outside of the 80's and early 90's talk show really haven't had much flavor. I'm gonna have to say push because there are too many variables involved to give a fair vote.
Matt Stryker as a color commentator.
LMAO, I wasn't mad! My bad if it came off that way.
I was just saying that the monthly PPVs are OBVIOUSLY overrated.
I agree @ the talk shows too.
@ Matt Stryker, I USED to say OVERRATED.
However, he IS currently the best commentator on either brand, and I actually like him as the host of "10 Count" as well.
Now, can Stryker hang with Ventura, Heenan, Monsoon, JR, or King from the 90s? No.
But he is the best they have CURRENTLY. So I'll say "underrated."
WWE Classics OnDemand....
Cont. On Stryker. To me he is probably as good if not a little better than Tazz was, and he sounds almost exactly like Tazz so if they put Michael Cole back on Smackdown where he belongs it will feel like the good ole' Smackdown again.
As far as WWE Classics On Demand go, my cable service does not offer that here so unfortunately I have to say overrated. :-( Perhaps with Shane McMahon signing as a CEO of that China Broadband company maybe he can work out some type of deal to have WWE programming streamed through their network. Perhaps that is part of Vince's master-plan? :-)
John Cena's move from Smackdown to RAW
Dark-Crusader
08-05-2010, 05:34 PM
Underrated. I would have to say that John Cena's move to Raw was somewhat unexpected (clearly from the reaction of the crowd, it shows it was). However it has been looked at as the "beginning of the end" for the Cena we all "knew and love". I think Cena was over as hell at this point, but not as much as the years following. Plus you add Jericho's Highlight Reel and Captain Charisma to the equation from that night, and you got yourself one hell of a segment.
O/U: Randy Orton's brief move to Smackdown via 2005
MournDespana
08-14-2010, 03:13 AM
nether as it should have been for longer yet it served its reasoning. Actually, I may have to say underrated.
O or U: TNA's current roster.
Maybe overrated. I mean right now half the roster is filled with has-been from WWE, WCW, and ECW. The rest of the roster is filled with talented wrestlers but I don't think they are that much better than the current WWE roster is. It's just that they are 'allowed' to wrestle over there. SO naturally they are gonna look more polished in the ring.
Daniel Bryan's return angle.
Dark-Crusader
08-18-2010, 02:44 PM
It's still a little too early to tell fully in the long run of how DB's return truly effected Team WWE/Nexus' match at SummerSlam. However for right now, I am going to say underrated. The Undertaker's return wasn't anything spectacular, but it told the story and so did Bryan's return.
O/U: The RAW roster in comparison to the Smackdown roster overall. (Wrestling, storylines, etc.)
FoonZeeS
08-18-2010, 03:10 PM
To me, RAW is overrated compared to Smackdown. I haven't watch a full episode of RAW since Vince "died" in the car explosion. I watch Smackdown every week and only really skip the women's matches.
O/U: The BDK storyline in CHIKARA.
Just saw this one, which I can answer:
The Order Of The Neo Solar Temple
Since there is no Temple anymore (barring anything that has happened since the Cleveland show since I haven't seen it yet), there is no answer to this question. If we assume you mean recently with Mantis, Bones and Delirious, that's actually a hard question for me to answer. People (fans) have really started getting behind Mantis, but on the other hand they (Temple) didn't have the light shining on them that they should've with the whole BDK storyline. I'd have to think a bit to give a precise answer.
Over/Under
First season of Monday Night RAW
MournDespana
08-30-2010, 02:02 AM
Underrated. It was exactly what WWF needed at the time and started a trend as a night where it was wrestling night instead of showing highlights, often of the same shit every on different shows every week (All-American wrestling anyone?). This made a trend and gave me one of the biggest mark out moments of my life (1-2-3Kid upsetting Ramon).
Over/Under: The current Kofi/Dolph feud.
heartbreakkid
09-04-2010, 08:16 AM
Overrated-It's just a midcard feud for the IC title. Even though both Kofi and Dolph are upcoming/rising stars and might be future world champions but generally they are still midcarders.
heartbreakkid
09-04-2010, 08:20 AM
Overrated-It's just a midcard feud for the IC title. Even though both Kofi and Dolph are upcoming/rising stars and might be future world champions they are still generally midcarders.
Over/Under: Billy Gunn/Mr Ass of 1999
Dark-Crusader
09-08-2010, 01:42 AM
Although I really didn't care for Gunn's singles work, I found him to be underrated in his tag team run with Road Dogg. He and Road Dogg had some memorable feuds and had a nice run in DX. His singles run on the other hand...
D'Lo Brown
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